Episode 122 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

If you’re in that pattern where it’s like things aren’t changing, even though the world is changing around you faster than you probably realise, that’s you, that’s your mindset.You’re stuck because you don’t have the courage and the leadership to actually do something about this and you’re expecting different results and you’ve got all these good intentions where you start the year going new year, new me, or new financial year going, oh, this one’s going to be different. Well, it’s not going to be different until you have the courage to do something different and show up different and make different decisions. G’day everyone. Rob Kropp and Dan Stones here from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back, Dan. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:44):

Always good to be back. Hello, everyone. Looking forward to get into this. This is a phrase that everyone would’ve heard. If you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what you’ve always got. It’s simple, it’s obvious, it’s logical and yet most of us, most trades business owners exactly who we coach are living proof that knowing something and doing something are two completely different things. So there’s two reasons for this and we’re going to explore these today. The first reason is our love of patterns. As humans, we love to run patterns mainly because it’s efficient and once something works, even if it just works well enough, we’ll keep doing it. It goes on repeat, no thinking required, do it again. The other reason that we’re going to talk about as well is because as humans, we’re also wired to protect ourselves from risk. So anytime we’re confronted with change, it often feels like a threat.

(01:32):

And the real problem though is that staying the same is often the much bigger danger. So Rob, I think that’s the essence of today’s episode. For you, what does that statement mean? That saying, “I know you love it, use it all the time.” So what’s it actually bring up for you when you hear that statement?

Speaker 1 (01:48):

I really do love it. And for me, it’s almost like a bit of a slap in the face. It’s almost a face the facts moment, which is one of our Pravar principles. But to me, it’s a real face the facts moment, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (01:59):

Yeah, it puts everything on your shoulders, which is a good thing if you’ve got that healthy relationship with challenge. It’s like, all right, it is back to me. It is up to me to do it. And if something’s going to change, it’s going to be up to me. So I like that feeling about it that it’s empowering. It’s empowering rather than a slap upside the head for me, but it’s similar sort of vibe.

Speaker 1 (02:19):

It is. If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. And it’s so true. And the real power of that statement is that it’s like there’s that litle cartoon. It’s like hands up for those who want change. And then you see on one side of the fence of all those who want change, it’s like, all right, hands up for those who are willing to do the work to change. And then there’s this one man with his hand up kind of thing. And so for me, that’s what it is. I think deep down people want to inadvertently as human beings, we are wired for growth, we’re wired for expansion. We want to live and build our businesses and live better lives. Deep down, that’s what a lot of business owners want. No one wakes up and goes, “Hey, I want to be a dead shit today and just run a shit business.” But as you said, there’s a big difference between wanting change and actually doing something about it to get a different result.

Speaker 2 (03:13):

Yeah, that desire for change is there in everyone, that desire for a better life, a better whatever it is, that gap is always there. The cruel thing is that we’re also just as much as we want that we’re also wired for these patterns and patterns are absolutely the most powerful thing in our world almost as a predictor of whether or not we will make that change. Our patterns, our habits, we talk about that all the time. Where do you sit on the whole patterns of behaviour and do you think they’re helpful? Do they hinder? How much do you put into that whole thing about patterns?

Speaker 1 (03:44):

Patterns of behaviour are really our brain doing its job. Our brain is built to be efficient in its job. And so as soon as a pattern of behaviour becomes grooved in our world, that’s its brain actually doing its job to make us efficient as human beings. And I think the trap here when it comes to this is the moment we get in a groove of doing things, whether it’s just being in the groove of driving to the office the same way or just unconsciously what we eat every day or the way that we show up as a leader or the way that we are present or not present with our kids, the way that we talk to people either a good and a bad way, they just become patterns that we run our life of. And it’s a good thing because it’s our brain being efficient, but the downside is that we can become so grooved in that way of operating that it becomes so hard to break that pattern of behaviour even though deep down we really do want something different or a better result in our business and life.

Speaker 2 (04:45):

Yeah. Those grooves become almost like ruts. They get deeper and deeper and deeper. And if you’re trying to shift gears or change paths, you’ve got to pick everything. It’s just so much harder to move out of that. It’s why it’s called a rut. If you fall into a rut, people talk about falling into ruts all the time. What that really is, is just your habits, your patterns of behaviour are so well grooved. You’re in that rut, it’s going to be tricky to get out of. And we’re wired again, like you said, in terms of energy and effort, whatever takes the minimal effort to get to A to B, not necessarily the most rewarding, we will take the easiest path. And where those ruts are, it’s usually it’s a guarantee. I don’t have to think it’s low effort, not a lot of energy, it’s predictable. It’s all those things which are positive until you want to go from A to B and make a real change in your world.

Speaker 1 (05:33):

It is. And that’s why when I talk to a lot of business guys who obviously running on the outside somewhat successful businesses, but they come to coaching or listen to a podcast or read a book or whatever it is, they’re looking for answers because they want to improve their cashflow, they want to fix their time, they want to get a better team, they want to show up as a better leader. So people are already on that journey to wanting to be better. But in particular, I talk to a lot of blokes in the trades and construction space and they’re like, and I say, “Well, what’s your problem? I’ve got cashflow problems.” And then I use that statement going, “Well, mate, if you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what are you going to always gotten?” And then you follow that up with the next question going, “Well, what are you actually doing about it to actually fix your cashflow problems?” And they’re like, “But Rob, you don’t understand. I’ve got this and this is an issue.” I get that, mate, but what are you actually doing differently to fix it? And that’s the problem and that’s why this statement is so powerful is because it snaps you out of that to stop focusing on the problem to make you realise you’ve actually got to do something different rather than just continue to focus down on the problem. And I think as human beings, we’re very good at identifying what the problem is, but sometimes get challenged around, well, what’s the actual solution to do something different?

Speaker 2 (06:54):

Yeah. The difference between learning something new and actually doing something about it is light years apart. And I think that’s the thing where people, the pattern is, I need a new pattern. Well, you kind of do, but you’ve got to explore the patterns and become aware of what got you here in the first place. Sometimes stopping that pattern, replacing it, putting something new and doing something’s really, really important. But a lot of people that you talk to will sit there and say, “Hey, teach me the new thing I need to know and think that somehow magically that’s going to happen.” It’s got to go hand in hand with action and it’s got to do something to address the rut you’re in if it’s a change that you want to make from something that’s negative or hurting you to something better.

Speaker 1 (07:31):

So why do you think people get stuck in those patterns or just continue to repeat the same patterns of behaviour and over and over?

Speaker 2 (07:40):

I think definitely the sense of comfort and the preservation of energy. It’s low energy, it’s easy and the statement is absolutely true. If I do the same thing, I’ll get the same result. If it’s not hurting me, I’m going to be wired and have that thinking of like, “Well, if it’s not hurting me, I can just do the same thing. It’s low energy. I can get a guaranteed result.” May not be great, but at least I’m not going backwards. And I think that lends itself into the next thing, which is complacency through our habits. If we’re not challenging and so many people think that by staying in the rut, I’m keeping where I am, but over time you actually end up going backwards. So I think it’s another sort of mark against this idea of living by patterns and patterns alone.

Speaker 1 (08:22):

Yeah. When we look at people’s results in life, we talk a lot in coaching around their fuel source where the masses, the 95%ters, and even though you run a business, you can still be a 95%er. The 95%ters are motivated by pain. The 5%ters are motivated by pleasure and wanting to create something better. Whereas the thing is most people are motivated by, “Well, I want to get out of my cashflow issues. I want to get out of my time problems. I want to get away from my team issues. I want to get away from working so many hours.” And they’re motivated by just getting away from that. And that’s why they become stuck in these patterns. They’re too busy focused on, “I don’t want that, ” rather than being, “Hey, I actually want to move towards this and look at the business and the life that I can create.” And sometimes at some stage in business, you’ve got to turn a corner to moving away from pain and striving for something better at some point in your journey.

Speaker 2 (09:21):

Yeah. As you keep saying and using that word better, inherently it means something different. So you can’t expect to be better by doing the same. So better’s never going to arrive unless something is different about the way you’re approaching that situation, be it cashflow, be it staffing, management, whatever it is in your business.

Speaker 1 (09:37):

And that different requires you to move out of your comfort zone, doesn’t it? Yeah. And moving out of the comfort zone is bloody scary. And this is why I think people don’t do it because all of a sudden there’s fear that pops up there. There’s a little bit of guilt that it’s like, “Hang on a second, what’s going on here?” Or they’re shameful of moving in the direction. So all these unconscious emotions really start arising and that’s what keeps people stuck in these traps or the ruts, doesn’t it?

Speaker 2 (10:06):

It does. And this sort of lends itself into our second part of this whole thing and this conversation is the cost of change and the price you need to pay for change. There’s two parts to that. There’s resistance. So you’ve already got that thing. You say, “Well, am I going to do this or not? ” And then you start to feel like you almost feel that resistance rising and then to convince you to conserve energy, to convince you to stay in the rut, you then start to add up what is the cost of change. And we tend to then overweight the downside, which is playing to our sense of certainty, our sense of not risking, our sense of keeping things okay. It’s all right, you don’t need to do this. This is too risky. And people do that all the time.

Speaker 1 (10:44):

Yeah, they do. It’s like when you have to make change, it’s going to come at a cost. It’s going to come at a cost of stopping doing something and starting doing something new and that it might come with a time cost. It might come with a financial cost. It might come at a cost of having to change the way that you fundamentally do things. And for a lot of people that can be scary or it can have a deemed negative impact in their mind around what that cost is going to be to change. And so we see this a lot in coaching where someone deep down knows that they need to do something different, but the risk or the cost or the change is greater than the desire. And when the risk, the cost or that of the change is greater than the real desire to do something differently, they’ll never do something about it.

(11:32):

And so it’s about really being aware and starting to reconcile this in our minds to reduce the cost or the risk and increase the desire. And that’s when change happens and you can move a lot quicker.

Speaker 2 (11:46):

Yeah. And it’s really hard to do that though. When the primary question, you confront it with change. The first thing your brain goes to is what if. So if you go, what if dot, dot, dot, most people then go to, what if it doesn’t work? What if I lose? What if I’m wrong? And that becomes the overriding thing. And then the fear ramps up, which takes us away from making the change or moving forward into the change if you like. So I think that primary question then is one, and we’re no different. We have this, we have conversations with each other and luckily we get to counterbalance each other with that all the time. But when you’re by yourself, you’ve got to really explore how do you tailor that what if question when you come up against a change moment? What if it goes wrong?

(12:25):

What if it’s bad? If you’re wired that way, it’s instinct so you will have it, but you’ve got to have that awareness, like you said, to call yourself out on it, face the facts and remind yourself using the phrase, whatever it is that gets you to balance out that equation and go from trying to get away from pain into more of a motivation towards what you want or what motivation towards pleasure.

Speaker 1 (12:47):

A really great example of this is at a recent event of ours, we had a client called Nick who runs, he does run a great business and he got into coaching because he had some health challenges probably about nine months ago. And so that was the starting point of the desire where it’s like, “You know what? I had some significant health problems. I can’t keep running the business like I am at the moment.” And that was the changing point in his mind where it’s like, “I can’t keep doing this. If I keep doing the same thing over and over and again, nothing’s going to change for me and I’ve got to show up as a better husband, a better father, better leader, and I don’t want to have these health problems.” So that was the thing that got him into making change. But all of a sudden, the moment then he had to start genuinely making change around putting a CA on and really optimising the way that he runs his pricing and job management and the bookkeeping function, what happened is there was fear that came up.

(13:47):

He became a little bit nervous, a little bit scared and these emotions started bubbling to the surface unconsciously by the way. And in coaching, we were like, “We got to hire this person.” But for him, there was a whole heap of resistance to change for him because of experiences that had happened in the past when he’d tried to make these moves and they failed. So Dan, there’s a great example where someone’s desire to make change in the beginning was there, but it wasn’t until when push came to shove to really make these changes significantly move and permanently stick through restructuring team and time and job management, that’s where the resistance started to show up, wasn’t it?

Speaker 2 (14:26):

It is. And it’s built over time. Again, it was a rut that if you go back to the patterns thing we just spoke about, it was a rut that Nick had sort of put himself into without realising it, but it’s really hard to get out of because he would’ve told himself he’s played that downside risk card so often. What if it goes bad? What if it goes bad? It’s what’s kept him going. It’s his instinct that’s kicked in that got the business to where it is. But the minute you have to what we call change your fuel source, your story has to change. Your focus around what the opportunity represents has to change. We’re talking about this today, but it’s so much deeper going on within us. We could talk about reptilian brain versus logic brain, all of these different things. But when we start talking about story and focus, it’s your language that you use, those patterns.

(15:11):

There were some studies done a while ago and it was the idea of if we’re presented with two options and there’s something like a … If I told you there was a 10% failure rate, they did it in an emergency situation like for surgery and health related stuff, there’s a 10% failure rate and how many people then avoid that because the risk is so high, but they’re completely ignoring there’s a 90% success rate. So if you start thinking that way and you think it’s the same number, 10%, 90% success, 10% failure works out. It’s based on the same number. So what you’ve got to be able to do is have the wherewithal to go, right, am I framing this in a way that it’s the failure that I’m focused on and over focusing on? Because yeah, sure, 10% people might fail in that higher. I might hire the wrong person.

(15:55):

There’s a 10% chance of that, but they never ask that question. There’s a 90% chance that I could succeed here. I could be excited. I could be just as excited about this challenge and I can push forward knowing that as well, but they’ll avoid that if all you do is focus on the failure rate and the possibility that it might go wrong.

Speaker 1 (16:13):

And that’s in same as Nick’s example, Nick was focusing on the chance of failure rather than the result of success. And it wasn’t until it was through coaching where he had the desire, like deep down, he wanted to do something different and break this pattern behaviour and get a different result. That’s why he came to coaching and that’s why he sought out help and that’s probably why you listening here are seeking out help through the podcast and reading books and all those types of things. But it wasn’t until we sat Nick down and went, “Well, let’s minimise the risk. Let’s minimise the potential cost and let’s look at all the benefits that can come out of this. Look at the change that can happen with the team. Look at the hours you can reduce. Look at the amount of margin you can prove. Look at the profit that you’ll make.” So it wasn’t until we really equalised this in his mind to be able to go, “Let’s reduce the downside and build the upside.” Then he goes, “Ah, I get it.” Bang. The resistance to change subsided and boom, he just went on with it and he’s really working through that process at the moment. He’s getting ready to put that CA on board and we know in coaching it’s through enough experience it’s going to completely change his world. So that’s what you’re talking around with Nick’s example where he was focusing on the 10% rather than looking at, “Hey, there’s a 90% success rate here.”

Speaker 2 (17:34):

That’s right. And it’s not just to a hire. It’s in all facets of business. People do it with sales as a notorious one where the chance of rejection is there. All you’re doing is focusing on that downside risk and how it could go wrong, how you’d feel, what does that look like? It’s in almost every facet of business you can play this game, but you’ve got to remember to play it.

Speaker 1 (17:55):

I think the punchline out of this is this is a face the facts moment for you listening. If you keep doing what you’re doing when it comes and the way that you show up as a leader, you’re going to have exactly the same team. If you fail to work on your business and expect your business to change, your business will not change because if you keep operating the same way. If you keep showing up the same way as you are as a husband and as a father and potentially not being as present and connected as you know that you really want to be, you’re going to have exactly the same relationship with your wife and kids. If you keep doing business development the same way and expect your pipeline to grow, you are absolutely diluted. I can use example after example after example, and this is why I love this quote.

(18:42):

If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. And so I know that there’s something going on in your world right now, whether it’s in your health, your wealth, your business or your connections that you know that you’re not happy with. And the first part of making change is the awareness around what you’re dissatisfied with. It’s the acceptance that you’ve got to do something about it and it’s about having the desire to actually get out of that pattern of behaviour and have the willingness to get out of your comfort zone and embrace change to actually do something about it. Because then for those who are listening, if they don’t do anything about this, this is their business and life for the rest of time until they actually change, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (19:30):

It is. And it’s a moment when you make that decision. That’s the thing that changes it. The strategies are all there, but they’re on the other side of making that decision. If you’re out of your comfort zone and it feels really scary, everything you want is on the other side of that comfort zone. So it’s really important that you understand it’s that moment of decision that’s going to lead you into the steps you’re going to take. But unless you recognise it and do that, it’s really hard.

Speaker 1 (19:55):

And to be honest, Dan, that takes courage, doesn’t it? And courage to want something better and to actually do something about it.

Speaker 2 (20:05):

It really does. It’s that ability to take action even though you’re uncertain. It’s doing something you haven’t done before and it means that you are going to risk, but that’s what business is. There’s no guarantees in business. It doesn’t matter how long you’ve had your business. It doesn’t mean how long you’ve been in your trade. It doesn’t matter how deep the success is or how much money you’ve got. The risk is always there. You live with it, but somehow without the courage, we tend to let the risk overwhelm us and we let go of courage over time. We downplay that. So it’s really important that as you get bigger and you start to build momentum, getting wrong feels like it’s the failure you’ve got to avoid at all costs. But really that’s the thing, that’s that line, that decision you’ve got to have is the courage to cross that line and step into something new, to step into something better, whatever it is for you.

Speaker 1 (20:57):

Encourage is one thing. There’s a little trick that we can do in our mind around reframing things. So courage is the leadership attribute, I suppose, is a thing we’ve got to demonstrate, which can be built on over a period of time. But do you want to talk a little bit about the reframers? I know that you love this around how we can almost trick our mind to have the courage and also see the situation differently so we do take action.

Speaker 2 (21:22):

Yeah, you got to have a way forward. You’ve got to see it as a solvable problem. There’s got to be a way forward that makes sense. So you can almost trip that voice in your head and keep it thinking. So you’ll get tripped up every time you think about, well, what could go wrong and how bad would it be and what would happen then? And you doom and you spiral downwards. So you can do that really easily, but the trick is when you ask a question, ask the counter question almost immediately. If you can play that trick in your mind, you go from, “All right, it could go wrong. There’s a bit of risk here. What’s the opportunity? How could this go right? What if this was the best decision I ever made? How would that look?” And you can imbalance it, but the trick is, again, it’s a moment in time.

(22:02):

Neither is true because you haven’t done it yet. It could still be risky, but your ability to find the courage and take action in the face of that uncertainty, in the face of that fear comes from being able to see a little way forward and saying or building that bridge with the opposite question allows you to see a way forward over the decision point you need to make.

Speaker 1 (22:22):

Yeah. It’s almost like look at all the things that could go wrong. All right, I won’t do anything about it rather than, “Hey, look what could go right. Look what I can create. Look what we can build. Look who I can be. ” They’re completely different ways of looking things that looking at the downside keeps you trapped and stuck and repeating the same patterns of behaviour, getting the same results. Yet if you want a different result, you’ve got to be someone different. You got to think someone different. You got to do something different. And that’s the power of this reframe, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (22:52):

It really is. I remember doing this with Mitch a while ago, someone we were coaching and Mitch had this decision making. He had this in spades. He’d always look at it and I said to him, “Think of it as a coin. You know how you say, I’ll flip a coin. I don’t know what to do when I’m stuck.” I said, “You flip a coin, but for you it’s going from what if it doesn’t work and how bad could it get was the other side of the coin.” Now, if that’s the two sides of the coin, unlikely you’re going to do anything, right? But if you had two sides of the coin that weighed out nicely, you’d still play the game. You’d still show up. What if it goes bad? What if it goes great? So it was about having that wherewithal and having that little mindset of a coin with two opposite sides, not just two sides of the same coin.

(23:30):

The risk and the ultimate failure is not a good coin to be flipping when you’re trying to make progress or grow your business. It really hurts.

Speaker 1 (23:38):

Talk us through that with Mitch and what were we able to help him break through so he could break those patterns of behaviour to get different results for him?

Speaker 2 (23:46):

I think looking back on it, it was a few years ago, but I think at the time it was almost like he was moving out of premises and he’d sat on opportunities and he’d let them go with premises all the time. He was working out of his house at the time the porch was covered in shit. He had gear everywhere, guys traipsing through the house, all of that stuff, but he kept doing it, right? He always did what he’d always done and he always got what he always got. So in his case, it was his partner being shitty about having to have breakfast with tradies every day, having nowhere to put the car, all those sort of things that go with it. But at the same time, his ability to see past that came from then going, “Right, I’ve got this opportunity. We talked about it.” And all he did was talk for like 10 minutes on the downside, more downside, more downside. And I said to him, “I’m guessing you’re probably not going to do this one either.” And he goes, “Oh, I’m not feeling great about it. ” I said, “Right, let’s take pause and let’s go the other side.” And what he did then was move into his new premises. So he actually, he got that moment of courage. He was able to break through that. He balanced it out, took the decision, moved into his new premises. What came out of that, he was able to get his admin and his admin started to work within the premises and he sped up that higher and that development. And now he’s on, I think he’s onto his second premises that he now he runs, he owns and it’s his. So there’s all of this happened because he had to find that moment of courage to do something different.

(25:06):

It all came out of changing the way he was approaching a decision point or changing the way he approached that moment in time when the change was there to be had.

Speaker 1 (25:14):

It was the difference between him being stuck turning over a million dollars, him and a couple of guys and working crazy hours and he’s misses being unhappy because he worked from home and no work-life separation to now running a true lifestyle business admin, bookkeeper, PM in place, estimation support, really epic career random, doing amazing work in the space. If he hadn’t have had the courage to make that decision and do something different about it, he would still be stuck back there doing the same thing, turning over a million dollars not changing. And so if you’re listening and you’re in that pattern where it’s like things aren’t changing even though the world is changing around you faster than you probably realise, that’s you, that’s your mindset, like you’re stuck and you’re stuck because you don’t have the courage and the leadership to actually do something about this and you’re expecting different results and you’ve got all these good intentions where you start the year going, “New year, new me, ” or new financial year going, “Oh, this one’s going to be different.” Well, it’s not going to be different until you have the courage to do something different and show up different and make different decisions.

(26:20):

So hopefully this episode has been that little jab in the side, the little reminder for you, that little face the facts moment that if you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. And maybe we can set the listener maybe a little bit of a challenge, Dan, to get them to choose one thing that they’re going to show some courage and do something about it maybe.

Speaker 2 (26:42):

Yeah, this is a litle just sit by yourself moment. You really have to go and have a think about this one. But be honest, pick one area of your business or your life where you know something needs to change or you’ve been putting it off so you know that there’s a change required. You know what it is. We’ve all got them. It could be in your business pricing, it could be sales, it could be a system, could be a key hire that you need to make. It could be your health, could be a relationship thing. Whatever it is, name it. Okay? Get it out there and face the facts like we’ve been talking about. Then ask yourself honestly, am I avoiding this because it’s genuinely not the right move, it’s not the right time or because it’s uncomfortable, because it’s unfamiliar, because it’s scary, because that’s the starting point for all of this.

(27:28):

And then you can start to go into that thinking and then watch what the thoughts are as you go. The next question will be, I guarantee it, what if? And no matter what it is, what if it doesn’t work? What if it does? And just practise that opposite side and see how it feels different because that is doing something different, that’s doing what you haven’t always done and that will get you a different result. Just by asking a different question, you’ll get a different answer and things start to change that way. So start off small. One area where you know there’s some friction there where the rut is real and then pick that and then just start to follow the conversation, but balance it out, be very deliberate in the way you talk to yourself about that decision.

Speaker 1 (28:10):

And then they’ve got to get off their ass and do something about it. And that’s the key, isn’t it? It’s not no good just thinking about it. What are you going to do about it? Correct. And what are you going to physically do? How are you going to show up differently and what are you going to do to make that change? You can’t just think your way through change. They’ve physically got to do something, don’t they, Dan?

Speaker 2 (28:29):

No, when you’ve gone through that thinking phase, remind yourself of what this whole episode is. Well, what am I going to do about it? If I always do what I always done, which is probably nothing, which is just think about it, which is not act on it, which has failed to summon the courage, you’ll get the same result. So you’ve got to ask yourself that question and come back to it again.

Speaker 1 (28:48):

If this episode has resonated with you and you are in that position where you’re feeling stuck, trapped, maybe the results you’re getting are on repeat or worse yet, you’re feeling like you’re going backwards when you really want to be moving forward and you are confused, genuinely confused around what to do next and lacking the courage to be able to pull the levers on a few things you know you need to do deep down then jump across to strategysession.com.au, fill out the application form, book in a time that suits and let’s have a conversation around where are you, where are you trying to go and what is it that we’ve got to change? And let’s talk through creating a roadmap and hopefully that moment of clarity will give you the courage to actually do something different. So jump across to strategysession.com.au, book in a time that suits.

(29:36):

Let’s have a chat because Dan, that chat for a lot of people has been a turning point in their business and life and hopefully this episode has been something where we’ve almost just rubbed a bit of salt in the wounds to not to focus on the pain, but almost to motivate them to do something different. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:56):

It is. It’s time to get off your ass. It’s time to do something different. It’s time to get better, all of that comes from an action and you need to get on with it. So hopefully we hear from you real soon.

Speaker 1 (30:05):

Hope you enjoyed today’s episode. Look forward to coming back to you with another episode on The Trade Den very shortly. Until then, take care.

Speaker 2 (30:12):

See you soon.