Episode 124 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

I’ve been head in the clouds for so long, running things off a whim, and then now I’m very focused on leadership, team structure, just the whole dialling in of our team. I guess the next part is also just developing those new skills as a leader to then make the businesses the best that they possibly can be. But I know the byproduct for that, it’s just going to be natural growth.

Speaker 2 (00:00:28):

G’day everyone. Rob Kropp and Dan Stones here from Pravar Group, and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back, Dan. How are you?

Speaker 3 (00:00:36):

Good to be back, Rob. Hello. Love this. We’ve got a client feature today and a client who I can’t wait to talk to. Some of our chats over the years have been epic. I’ve really enjoyed them. They’ve been very memorable, and I can’t wait to have a chat to Luca and go through some of his journey. It’s a pretty cool story.

Speaker 2 (00:00:54):

It is. So big warm welcome to you. Luca, good to have you on.

Speaker 1 (00:00:57):

Hey guys, thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here. And yeah, looking forward to sharing a little bit about what the last few years has been like.

Speaker 3 (00:01:05):

Excellent. We’re looking forward to it, mate. Obviously, Luca Lepena from Aesthetic Tile and Stone. What we want to know in the start, I think, mate, is let’s get cracking on getting to know you a little bit, right? Where did you grow up? Are you still there? Where are you based now in relation to all of that? And just the early days of Luca. This is a story I haven’t heard before, so I’m looking forward to hearing a little bit about what you were like as a kid.

Speaker 1 (00:01:28):

Yeah, so born on the Gold Coast, parents, immigrants from Italy. Dad shot over to Melbourne from Rome in the ’60s and mum shot over to Brisbane. They ended up meeting on the Gold Coast and was born and bred and still hanging around the Goldie. So it’s just been my playground for the last 36 years now, and I love it. The Gold Coast, I’ve always loved living here. It’s been such a great place to grow up and run a business and start a family and stuff. So yeah, the Goldie’s my home, my location, where my heart is.

Speaker 3 (00:02:05):

It’s amazing. I hear that. Growing up as a kid, we had some time, spent a lot of time on the Gold Coast, and I was always envious of the people that were the true locals. I sort of almost felt like a pseudo one at one point, but could never crack that to be one of those local ones. But I think growing up there would’ve been an amazing time. What sort of kid were you, mate? At school and growing up, were you a competitive sort of kid? Were you a sporty kid? Were you just a quiet kid? How were you?

Speaker 1 (00:02:33):

I think I grew up on reflection. I was a bit more of an introvert growing up, but I always kept busy. I just remember from the age of three and four and five years old, just always playing outside with toys and trying to find. I always was trying to find something to do. I think every day I woke up when I was a kid, I felt like today was an adventure. Let’s go and seek an adventure. And that might be out in the backyard or playing with an action man with a parachute or something and trying to build a zip line for him and that type of thing. So I just have these vivid memories of a kid of always being busy. And we lived on the water for a fair while and I was just fishing a lot. And eight, nine, ten years old, I was just fishing and dad would take us out boating and that type of thing.

(00:03:22):

And I always had to do something, but it constantly progressed into something else. So playing with action toys progressed into fishing, which progressed into surfing and that type of thing. So definitely competitive. I think that everything that I did, I always wanted to be as good as I could be at it. I always had a high standard of myself. And yeah, I always wasn’t scared of taking some risks on things like skateboarding and hauling some pretty big staircases and hurt myself like crazy. And especially with the surfing side, I was a competitive bodyboarder for a long time, about 10 years and loved that. Paddle the seaway on the Gold Coast in the pitch black to get over the other side to catch the sunrise and get a good surfing. And I do afternoon shifts doing that, paddling home in the dark across the seaway. There’s shark infested waters and stuff like bull sharks.

(00:04:19):

So I wasn’t scared to go and get things that I wanted to do and things that made me happy. So that’s kind of how my upbringing was. And I worked from the age of 11, so I worked in mobile phone shops and then got a job at City Beach when I was 13. Worked at City Beach in Billabong until I was 17.

Speaker 3 (00:04:38):

Wow, very cool. And did you have brothers and sisters growing up or was it just you?

Speaker 1 (00:04:42):

Yeah, sister and a half brother.

Speaker 3 (00:04:44):

Yeah, nice. Very good. And I’m guessing those late night, early morning paddles out across seaways and things like that were kept from mom and dad, especially, and I can speak from experience, Italian mothers and things like that, you would’ve been in for it had they known what you’re doing there.

Speaker 1 (00:04:59):

Yeah, we lived in Broadbeach near the beach. So we moved into this apartment when we were 12 and I picked up bodyboarding when I was 13. So I’d start to get the clip across here when I’d get back and the sun would be gone. And also I’d have my grandmother living with us as well. And she was Nazi, full old school Italian grandmother. The nonna.

Speaker 3 (00:05:21):

The nonna wouldn’t have been happy with anything.

Speaker 1 (00:05:22):

Yeah, yeah getting home late and trying to hang my wetsuit up because I’d get in trouble dragging salt water through the house and stuff like that too. But yeah, you couldn’t stop me. You couldn’t stop me. It was just such a passion of mine for so many years. It still is. I just don’t do it anymore as much as I used to.

Speaker 3 (00:05:38):

I love it. What was the background? What was your mom and dad doing? Were they in business? What did your dad do? What did your mom do?

Speaker 1 (00:05:44):

Yeah, so I would consider my grandmother the entrepreneur of the family, not the one that lived with us, but the one on my dad’s side. So she opened the first Italian restaurant. I think it was the first Italian restaurant on the Gold Coast in Kirra in the ’60s or ’70s. And from then on, my grandmother grew four to five Italian restaurants across the Gold Coast between the ’80s and the ’90s. And then so my father naturally got bought into that as a GM into that operation. And then when we were living in Broadbeach when I was kind of a teenager, we lived in the high rise that had our restaurant down the bottom. So that’s what they did in a way. My mom actually worked for Channel nine and Channel seven for a number of years before dad brought her into the business when I was about 10.

(00:06:30):

So for 20 years prior to that, she was working in film and television. And then yeah, basically in hospitality until I went out into the workforce as a tiler.

Speaker 3 (00:06:41):

Nice. And so were you working in the restaurant at the time before you started tiling or was it sort of just everything happening at once? At the moment I’ve got this picture of you just doing a million and one things all at once and just totally occupied every minute of the day.

Speaker 1 (00:06:54):

Yeah, pretty much. So by the time I was playing and surfing and skateboarding and BMXing and all those types of things as well, I definitely needed pocket money on the weekends. So if I wasn’t working at City Beach on the weekends or at Billabong, I would be going to my grandmother’s restaurant more so than my parents. I don’t know why I’d gravitated towards my grandmother’s restaurant more. Nonna’s restaurant. And I’d polish cutlery and stuff, and my normal grandfather would give me 20 bucks to polish cutlery for half an hour so I could go hang out with my mates that night. There was always something, always something on the go.

Speaker 3 (00:07:25):

So how did you transition into tiling then? What was the jump? I mean, there’s nothing so far that would say that’s where you would end up. So what was the bridge to get to that?

Speaker 1 (00:07:35):

Yeah, so GFC was unfortunate. It actually didn’t work out great for our family in the hospitality space. And so my parents had to find different careers and they ended up splitting. And my mom met a lovely gentleman and he was a tiler. And when I was at school, I was kind of finishing off my year 12 and I went to schoolies and came home from schoolies. And it was the first week of December or whatever, because I think year 12’s finished a little bit earlier. And it was the first week of December coming back from schoolies, having a beer with him in the backyard one afternoon. And he was like, “So what are you doing?” And I’m like, “Well, I’m not going to uni.” And he’s like, “Okay, so what are you doing then?” And I was like, “Well, nothing. I’m on holidays now.” And he’s like, “You’re not on holidays?” And I was like, “Yeah, yeah, and this is my school holiday.” He’s like, “You’re not at school anymore you just graduated.” And he’s like, “You’re not on holidays?” I’m like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “You start on Monday.” And I was like, “Huh?” And he’s like, “Here’s your boots, here’s your hard hat, and here’s your high vis. You start on Monday.” And I’m like, “No.” And he’s like, “Well, there’s the front door. You can move out.” And I was like, “Oh, really?” He’s like, “Yeah.” I’m like, “Okay, let’s go.”

Speaker 3 (00:08:45):

So you were recruited into the tiling world more than anything else. Fully enrolled in.

Speaker 1 (00:08:54):

Lack of a better word.

Speaker 3 (00:08:54):

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You were drafted, I should say, drafted into the trade.

Speaker 1 (00:09:00):

Correct. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then so yeah, just jumped in and from day one, it was hard work, but I’ve loved the technicalities. I remember going to work on the first day and I was helping him cut tiles on the tile cutter where you just score and snap a tile. And I was so fascinated by how could you just score something so big and heavy and it just folds in half perfectly within one millimetre? I was so fascinated by it. I was like, no way. And then so we told a set of stairs over the next two days and I started to get really intrigued by it. Then the really hard work kicked in after that, but with the labour, he could mixing of sand and cement by hand on massive commercial jobs and stuff like that. But yeah, that’s how I got thrown into it.

Speaker 3 (00:09:46):

Was it a shock to the system? Was it the goldie kid just out of school, by the way, going to school is if you live on the Gold Coast, I don’t know if that school is just a weekend or a week. But anyway, if you do that and you get. Sorry, I’ve lost my thread. Cut that, Chris, just there. Let me just ask the question straight up. Don’t worry about the schoolies bit, even though it is a bit weird. But anyway, what was the shock to the system like in terms of going into the workforce that quick, that unexpected for you? I think knowing you now and your love for things that are a bit certain, you’ve lived this world where it seems a little bit, “I’ll do what I want on the day when I want to do it.” What was the early days of working like for you?

(00:10:32):

You were fascinated by it, sure, but were you into it or did you resist it?

Speaker 1 (00:10:38):

When you say shock to the system, an experience on my first day comes to mind because I went to private school and I was never an academic. I was very practical with my hands with everything that I did. But then when we arrived on the first day, it was six o’clock in the morning to get inducted on the job site. And the safety officer walks up to us and he’s tapping on his wristwatch and it was one minute past six. And then you’re like, “We want to get inducted.” And then the safety officer’s like, “Too bad you C words. You guys can try again tomorrow.” And I was like, that language, I’m like, “Are you joking? I’m 17 years old. I’ve just come from private school and this safety officer’s one minute.” And he’s like, “You guys can try again tomorrow.” And that was the biggest shock to the system for me.

(00:11:34):

I’m like, “What is this trade industry? This is not me. This is not who I am, not who I’ve been around. I’ve been around hospitality, I’ve been around Italians, all this stuff. I just don’t understand this environment.” So I think that was the biggest shock to the system for me, was a complete foreign environment to me. And then obviously the hard physical labour as well that came from that was just another complete shock to my system.

Speaker 3 (00:11:58):

So when did you decide that this was going to be? Talk us through the next step, which becomes you decide this is my career, this is my trade. Do you decide or you just keep going with the flow and find your years into it and I’m going to start my own business? How does that sort of transition happen?

Speaker 1 (00:12:13):

I remember on that specific job site, because I was there for a good six months, I kept looking at what everyone else is doing and I was like, “I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that.” And I was even looking at my boss, my stepdad at the time, and I was like, “I want to be him. And I want to be running around and organising these people.” And I was looking at the tilers and I was like, “How quick can I get to tiling that wall? I want to tile that wall and I want to screed those floors and I want to do those things that they were doing.” So it turned into a really intriguing thought pattern for me walking around these job sites looking at the different things that they were doing. And I was like, “I want to do that,” which is weird because it was tiling.

(00:12:53):

I don’t know why, but somehow now talking about it and not something that I thought that I’d ever be passionate about, but it was something that I looked at and I was like, “I just wanted to do the next thing in that particular trade.” So that’s what interested in the cutting, the laying, the organising, the running around. I just loved it.

Speaker 3 (00:13:12):

So did you take on that business as you started your own company in time or did you step out on your own?

Speaker 1 (00:13:20):

No, so I did my apprenticeship with Andrew. I stayed with him for four years. And as soon as I got signed off, I left and started my own thing straight away.

Speaker 3 (00:13:31):

Nice. So where are we then? We’re talking, what, around 2015, 16, that sort of time or a bit earlier?

Speaker 1 (00:13:38):

Yeah, a bit earlier. So 2007 I started and then I got held up as a labourer for a year, and then I officially got signed up as an apprentice a year later. Then I had to do my four years after that. So about 2022, and then I tore my shoulder and had to have a year off work at the gym. So then I actually got a job as a currency trading broker. I got my RG 146. I was interested in trading. I got hired by a firm in Sydney who had an office on the Gold Coast. So I learned a lot about the trading spec, which was pretty cool, but then I realised it wasn’t for me. So that’s when I went back into tiling and then started my own thing and then just put an out on Gumtree for a bathroom in 2023, and that’s how it all kicked off. Oh, sorry, 2013.

Speaker 3 (00:14:25):

2013. Yeah, I was going to say you were in coaching by then well and truly. Yeah. Excellent. That’s really cool. So when you get into your own business then, what becomes the gravitational pull for you? Is it business ownership? Is it management? Or is it none of that? It’s just more of what you now are starting to love to do and just trying to get a business out of the ground?

Speaker 1 (00:14:47):

Yeah, I think it was never really a goal to start a big business. I think I was at a crossroads where I was like, “What do I do after my shoulder repaired and that type of thing?” And then I was like, “I’ve learned this trade and I can make money from this trade. Just simply put an ad up on Gumtree and just start doing these jobs for people. But I want to deal with the owner directly and I want to get paid directly from that owner. And I want to organise my own schedule and I want to organise everything from start to finish that’s wrapped around that particular bathroom with a particular splashback.” And I think that’s where that started for me.

Speaker 3 (00:15:26):

Nice. So fast-forward a little bit, we get to around 2018, you come into the coaching world, you enter into Pravar coaching. What was business like at that time? What had transpired? What drove you to get in touch with Rob and start this journey? What was it like at that time?

Speaker 1 (00:15:46):

Yeah, so I was on the tools full-time up until probably the end of 2017. Around 2015 and 2016, I had a crack at hiring guys and I got to that five to six guys mark and just didn’t know how to manage anybody. I didn’t know anything about managing staff. I didn’t know anything about profit margins on jobs. I didn’t know what I was making or anything like that. And I was also relying on one guy heavily as my head tiler. He left at the end of 2016. And then in 2017 specifically was the year that I did a late every single time myself. And then I got to the start of 2018 and I just said to myself, “I’m done. I’m not doing this anymore.” Because I was always searching for more. And I was like, “If this is all it’s going to be, just me tiling for the next 40 years, I don’t want to buy of it.” But then I sat down and I thought I’ve got, at that stage I was the start of 2018.

(00:16:51):

At this stage, I’ve got 10 years experience in the industry. And I was like, “I’m going to go and learn another industry now when I’ve already got 10 years experience in this industry in my back pocket and I haven’t even extracted everything I can out of it.” And I was like, “I’m just going to have a crack at this now because what’s the point of starting something else and spending another 10 years learning that industry?” So I spoke to a couple of people and found a massive project that I got offered, and I took it on. And it was only until a year ago or two years ago, this was still our biggest project to date. And I think it was maybe 300-odd grand. But the guy’s like, “Do you want it, the builder?” And I was like, “Yeah, okay.” And I was one person, and this job needed about 10 guys.

(00:17:34):

And I didn’t know how the hell I was going to get this thing delivered. Just made it happen. I just made a phone call. I found one guy. I asked him if he knew anyone. He goes, “Yeah, I’ve got five cousins. Go bring them across.” And then all of a sudden, within three or four months, we were all on this job. And then the builder was quite impressed, and he basically put us on his other two jobs and then recommended us to his other two builder mates, and that’s when it all kind of kicked off. But then at the end of, I think it was around that mid to end of 2018 mark, I was like, “I’ve now gone from me to 10 guys within the space of six, seven months. And I need help. I need that next stage. I still don’t know anything about business.

(00:18:19):

I still don’t know anything about management. And I can see this turning to shit if I don’t actually get some coaching and get something done.” So that’s when I reached out to Rob, saw the ads come up, reached out, got cold feet. And then I think I ghosted Rob for a few months.

Speaker 3 (00:18:37):

I love a good Rob ghosting story. We’re going to get well into that. So yeah, keep going.

Speaker 1 (00:18:42):

Ghosted Rob. And then I actually remember exactly where I was in the car when I had that call with Rob. And I was like, oh yeah, I’ll see how I go. So Rob sends me the contract and I just went silent. And then I called him back three months later. I was like, “Oh, would you let me come back?” He goes, “Yeah, mate, come on, let’s go.” And then that’s where it all kicked off. And we started the leverage programme at the time at the start of 2019.

Speaker 3 (00:19:05):

Yeah, excellent. Rob, what do you remember about that apart from being ghosted? Oh, there’s nothing much to remember because you were ghosted.

Speaker 2 (00:19:11):

Yeah, I was a little sad, to be honest. I think from memory, you went completely cold. And then I think a post went up going, new leverage group starting starts in two weeks if you’re in. And I think you rang me and said, “Rob, I’m in, let’s go.” I’m like, “All right, let’s rock and roll.” But what I remember from the early days is you were always a big dreamer. And I think it’s what I always remember around, and I think that’s part of the flair of the Gold Coast and the background of your grandparents and the entrepreneurial spirit that runs through the family.

(00:19:51):

It’s not like we had to help stretch your mind in terms of the life and the lifestyle and the business you wanted to build. I think deep down, I remember you’re like, “Rob, I want to own a Lambar and I want to do this on the Gold Coast, and I want the big house, and I want to live this great life.” That’s the thing that reminds me, that I remember from the early days is you always dream big from the start. And that’s what I was always impressed about you. It’s not like coaching needed to stretch you. We just almost needed to fill in the gaps, which we got pretty busy doing from the onset.

Speaker 1 (00:20:22):

Yeah. Yeah. Always was that, what’s that next step? What’s that next step in fishing? What’s that next step in bodyboarding? What’s that next step in tiling? And there wasn’t a next step in working at Billabong. I knew that. And that’s why I pulled out. I was like, “I’m not going to be in retail.” And I think always had big dreams. And those big dreams have changed the way I dream now, but always had big dreams. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:20:50):

There’s no doubt we’ll probably get into it today, because that next step has definitely helped shape you and mould you into who you are today. And it’s got you into business and it’s helped you with the vision that you’ve got today, but it’s definitely worked against you in times where you’ve chased shiny lights and you’ve done all those things. And no doubt we’ll get to that towards the back end of this episode where you’ve potentially looked at changing different career paths and different industries multiple times compared to now where you’ve sunk your teeth into it properly. But yeah, there’s no doubt we’ll talk about that more in this episode.

Speaker 1 (00:21:22):

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (00:21:24):

As we look at it, I mean, it’s interesting because you’re talking about, Rob, Luca’s love of just what’s next. And you said that too, Luca, about what’s next? What can I do that’s the next step? But when we go back to where you started coaching, you had so much that was going on at that time that needed to be addressed. And I’m interested, if I look back and I went back and did a bit of research and a bit of a reading, you were getting married mid – 2019 to Helena. The business was changing. Cashflow reared up for the first time. Margin tracking on jobs was a concept that you were like, “What’s this about?” And learning in coaching. I remember reading that you had BuildExec, you’d paid for it, but never used it and you had to come clean on a coaching call about, “Well, it’s there, but I never use it and it changed to a scorer.” How did you go then having to not go back, but just slow down probably for the first time in business and really go, “I’ve got to get some things in place.” It’s not what’s next, but in the sense of what’s new and what’s next is a new challenge, a new adventure like you’ve talked about. It was a discipline to, what’s next is slow down, get this right, because if you take another step or keep going the way you are, you’re just going to keep tripping yourself up.

Speaker 1 (00:22:35):

Yeah. I think what changed in my mindset was, and look, I still struggle with it today, but it was what I felt like doing versus what I needed to do. And Lionel, like me, Luca does his shiny lights, Luca does what he feels like doing. And I would have a plan for something and I would completely deviate and go do something else and then go do something else within the business, outside the business, whatever it is. And so it’s always just stimulated by that dopamine hit of something new and something refreshing and seeing something else that someone else is doing and going, “Oh, I’m interested in doing that.” And I think starting to get into coaching and understand that life requires a bit of a framework to a certain extent, not fully, but it requires a little bit of a framework, and especially in a business is more relevant than anything, requires a bit of a framework.

(00:23:29):

And I’m generally quite a, I like to be a bit of a routine person. It makes me feel safe. It makes me feel secure being routined. But I still did a lot of things outside of that that were just so many shiny light type things that weren’t conducive to me growing. And if anything, it’s held me back from growing at the rate that I should have been growing if I was just to pull back a little bit in the earlier days and gone, “Hey, let’s focus on this framework and not get sidetracked.” And I’m really understanding now that more than ever that those frameworks is giving me a bit more stability and a bit more certainty into what my future looks like versus every couple of months going, “Oh, I want to try this, I want to try that, I want to try that and do something different.” So my mindset has changed a lot from it yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:24:17):

Shiny lights is what we talk a lot about in coaching, but for someone who’s not heard about shiny light syndrome before, explain in your terms, Luca, how you would define shiny light syndrome.

Speaker 1 (00:24:28):

Waking up one morning and going, “I want to be a real estate agent,” and shut the business down.

Speaker 3 (00:24:33):

That’d be one. By the way, that’s not an example that Luke has given us. That is a real life shiny light.

Speaker 2 (00:24:45):

I had to sit at the stand on the beach at Hamilton Island at our awards event a number of years ago. And I’m like, “Mate, what are you doing? You are not going to real estate and just stick in the tiling business.” But talk to us about it in a business terms. What is shiny light syndrome and the danger of shiny light syndrome from a strategy point of view?

Speaker 1 (00:25:02):

Yeah. And I think having a plan in the business, having a plan to, for example, employ a supervisor, let’s say, or your first admin person or someone significant in the business, and knowing that that’s a three to six-month process to do that. And in the earlier days, getting someone in and then going, “Oh, hang on a minute. Instead of doing that and focusing on that, we’re going to go out and do these other things.” And then the sidetrackingness that happens from all that, it’s not good. It’s just not good for the business. And I liked deviating from a plan within the business. So I always struggled to stick to the framework that we needed to grow. And it didn’t really help us when I was not really focused on dialling things into the business because me, I’m not great at dialling things in. I’m great at implementing new things and bringing new things in, but I’m not great at dialling.

(00:25:59):

And being not great on dialling has definitely slowed down the rate of growth a little bit, I guess. But yeah, shiny light syndrome has been a hard one for me to let go of and just to understand myself a bit better over time.

Speaker 2 (00:26:17):

It’s a little bit like entrepreneurial ADHD. And you’re right, in business, business is more systematic and framework-driven than a lot of people realise. And I really like what you said there, Luca. There’s a difference between knowing what you need to do versus doing what you feel like you want to do. And a lot of business owners get stuck in that point where it’s either going back to what’s comfortable and what’s easy going to site, being on the tools and doing that what you know, or it’s avoiding the very thing which is going to solve the very problem that they’re facing in that moment. And so Dan, this is a big thing that a lot of the guys that we coach face where they chase shiny lights, whether it’s a new job management system, whether it’s a new person over here or completely change a plan halfway through it.

(00:27:03):

It really slows a lot of people down and it prevents them from achieving the very thing they want to achieve because they’re chasing either too many things or the wrong things, which are going to contribute to the very result that they want.

Speaker 3 (00:27:15):

Yeah. My kids, when they were little, used to talk about side quests when they were playing video games. There was this really cool side quest and they’ve been on that for age. It’s like, how do you play this game so long? And it’s like there’s all these side quests. And I think that’s the shiny light syndrome and the side quest that you’re talking about, going down those little rabbit holes that aren’t really progressing anywhere. They’re filling in colour, they’re filling in excitement, they’re giving you a dopamine hit. Yeah, you’re busy and it feels good for whatever reason. It fills a need for you, but it does nothing to advance the business. It does nothing to end you up in this space, which for you, Luca, is to have a successful business and be a person who’s gone from doing everything to managing everyone. That sort of journey is the key journey of the leverage programme, the key journey that you’re on.

(00:28:01):

And you just lose that and it takes infinitely longer to get through. So I think for you, that mission was always there, but all the side quests that came along with it. And I think that’s what made it such a harder thing to do than just go and say, “Well, I’m just going to do the work because it’s just not the way you were wired at the time.” And I think even then your definition of I want to be a great manager to be able to have a successful business. The definition of a successful business at that time for you, what was it? And I think Rob mentioned some of the stuff you’d talk about and dream about at the time, but just give us a sense of that because then we can marry up the gap in terms of your ability to manage a business like that.

(00:28:40):

So what was the definition of a successful business for you at that time?

Speaker 1 (00:28:44):

It’s really interesting because my definition was I wanted a business with 20 staff. It’s just such a superficial kind of vision, but I just wanted a big business with 20 staff. And every single time I was trying to think about what I wanted out of business and what I wanted, I wanted freedom. Freedom is one of my biggest values, but I wanted a business with 20 staff. I don’t know why. I wanted to tile high rises. I wanted to do the biggest and the best of everything. I wanted to do the biggest custom homes around Australia. I just wanted to have that, I don’t know, that status, I guess. It was very status orientated. There was not much depth to it. It was very, very shallow thinking. And so that’s when I was looking at it a few years ago and going, “What do I actually want out of business?” And I was like, “Okay, I want the house, the cars, I want 20 staff and this.” But I never looked at who do I want to be? I never questioned who do I want to be. I never questioned how do I want to set myself up? How do I want my family to be? How much profits do I want to make? There was never anything around that. It was always just around the surface level stuff. I never thought about the depth of what it actually meant to have those things as well and what you need to be and who you need to become to achieve those things.

Speaker 3 (00:30:16):

So what sort of manager, and we’ll talk about that deeper level in a moment, but what sort of manager did you show up as in the early days and what was the thing that held you to it? For me, I’m thinking, well, those early days of coaching would’ve been really hard for you because it’s the discipline, the slow down, the framework, there’s a path we follow here. It’s not just blazing your trail across the sky as hard and as fast and as high as you can go. So how did you reconcile all of that and what was the sort of management style that you were bringing to all of this at the time?

Speaker 1 (00:30:53):

Micro.

Speaker 3 (00:30:55):

Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:30:56):

Micromanager.

Speaker 3 (00:30:58):

But even that’s weird to me. To say you’re a micromanager, that means slowing down and getting stuck in the weeds of something. So there’s a part of you that loves detail. It just shows up in a weird way. So that’s why micromanagement as a concept almost grinds the gears of what you’re doing in the rest of your world.

Speaker 1 (00:31:18):

Yeah. And I think I’m a paradox because I’m a micromanager, but I also let go too much. I do both. And I’m battling, this is like my battle. It was my battle a long time ago, and I still battle with this a little bit today, but now this is kind of closing in a little bit more where I micromanage a little bit less and I don’t let people go so far as well. And I’ve kind of balanced that a little bit. But I’ve always gone, “Okay, well, I’m going to hire a supervisor and great, jump into the business and help me manage some jobs,” and then go, “Oh, I forgot to call that guy for two weeks.” But then all of a sudden hire a supervisor and go on site and go, “What are you doing today? What did you do at nine? What did you do at 10?

(00:31:57):

What did you do at one? Why isn’t that not done?” So I’ve always fought with both sides and being a natural control freak, it comes into the micromanagement side, but then my values of my freedom have pulled me the other way of letting people go too far because I’m trying to create this life where the business runs without me too. So it’s constantly been a tug of war. And in the early days, I probably let go too much more so because I liked structure. I thrived off structure. I liked to know that business could run without me. But I wanted that too early. I didn’t do the work to be able to dial that in enough. And so I’d get people in, let them go, and then find out there’s all these issues four or five months later and then have to jump into the ground and try to fix things. And that’s probably when my micromanagement style comes in to try to be missed to fix it too. So yeah, my management style is weird. I think I’ve got both sides, but I’ve always struggled to manage both sides up until recently where I’ve been a little bit better at pulling those two in a little bit closer now that I’m managing a bigger team and I’ve got a lot more responsibilities and I need to show up not as I feel, but how I need to be as a leader. So yeah, it’s been a tug of war, but there’s been a lot of learnings from it.

Speaker 2 (00:33:12):

Yeah. Thinking about your personality, when you first got into coaching, you were very much an extremes person, and that’s probably where that extremes came from where you are way too hands off and then you realise because you had high standards, high expectations, you realised things were going sideways, so you were way too hands on. And then you realise that you are way too hands-on, and then you’re like, “Shit, this isn’t me. I’ve got to get back out of the weeds. I’ve got to let them do their job.” And so that was almost the cycle that you were on. And that married up nicely with the shiny lights where you were chasing this and chasing that and the extremes also in your personality of you were either an all-in type of guy or an all-out type of guy. And I still remember that conversation we had in a. I can’t remember if it was a one-on-one or a group call where I introduced the concept of keep your highs, lows and your lows highs. And that was almost a turning point for you because you realised that you had to regulate yourself better and get yourself on your self-management and managing your emotions more of an even keel rather than the big peaks and troughs. I think that was a real turning point in your management style, wasn’t it? Where you got out of the extreme, you got out of the highs and out of the big troughs, and the more consistent you were within yourself, the more consistent you started to show up in business and also in your management style, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (00:34:38):

Yeah. And it was really affecting the way I ran my day-to-day in those early days. I’d have an issue on a job and I’d lose sleep for four months over an issue that was taking some time to fix, but then I’d have a win and I’d win a big job and for four months I’d be riding this massive high and I’d just be living off that high and that would be my identity at the time. I really struggled to balance the two and bring them a little bit closer together, just like the other side of it. My lows were low and my highs were really high and that affected my structure in the business as well and trying to implement things and stick to things and stop following shiny lights because I would do things based on how I feel, not what the structure would be.

(00:35:25):

And so that was a big turning point for me as well when we spoke about that because I knew that if I needed to change and I wanted to grow this thing and be a different leader, different owner, I needed to pull those things a little bit closer.

(00:35:41):

But that was always been a struggle for me. I’ve always loved the highs, hated the lows, and not working out how to bring those two together.

Speaker 2 (00:35:51):

Yeah, it comes in that Jocko’s extreme ownership book. He talks a bit about that he’s got a whole chapter on how freedom comes from the discipline of doing the same thing, the consistency of the same thing over and over and over again. And I think it’s not uncommon for a lot of business owners to grapple with this because a lot of business owners get into business because they want the lifestyle, they want the freedom, they want to have a business that works without them. That’s what they want from business, yet they don’t realise that that freedom or that sense of freedom comes from the consistency of doing the boring things. And this is the thing that you grappled with. And you’re not uncommon here, mate. And for you listening, if you’re listening here going, “Yeah, this is me.” Well, this is the reality of what it takes through business is freedom comes through the discipline of consistently doing the boring things over and over and over again.

(00:36:42):

And that’s almost for you, Luca, the grating for you, wasn’t it? Because you had to reconcile within your own mind to be able to go, “Well, if I do this consistently and boring, then I can get that over there that I’m chasing.” And I think once you started connecting the dots there, that was the penny drop moment for you, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (00:37:01):

Yeah, great in my personal life. I mean, you guys know my personal life was so good and disciplined and structured. Everything was just dialled in, in my personal life, apart from the period of time where we would bend her on weekends and it was a Friday routine, and it was for years where we would do that. And it was a stage that I went through and I had to get out of if I wanted to be this new person and go to that next stage. And it was pulled into it, and that’s the highs that I’d get so the highs from having that happen. And then so riding those highs through that and then causing the lows during the weeks and stuff. And then it just threw my plans and the business apart because now I was running my business based on feel and I wasn’t really doing what I needed to do. But yeah, basically, yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:38:01):

So how did that show up in the business? We talk about the concept of it, the behaviour patterns of it. Translate, if you can, or overlay what the impact was on the business.What did it cost you? If you can quantify, what issues showed up when you had the big extremes, the big waves happening through your life in terms of your personality, the business, and all those sort of things?

Speaker 1 (00:38:26):

Everything was just based on gut feel, the gut feel based on what it was at that particular time. So during the start of the week, you’d feel like shit from the weekend, but then during the back end of the week, you’d feel really good and be really motivated to grow your business and stuff. And then so I just wasn’t showing up as the best version of myself at all.

Speaker 3 (00:38:46):

I’m trying to piece together for the listener the idea of, did it show up as then you’d have high staff turnout because people couldn’t hang around someone who was so volatile in terms of these swings? Did you have cashflow issues? Because at one minute we were flushed, the next minute was empty. It was extreme on that end. How do the business challenges track to your journey as a manager or the lack of ability to regulate yourself, as Rob said?

Speaker 1 (00:39:14):

Yeah, pretty much all that. Back to another thing that actually just slowed my growth. It just completely just stifled my growth in business. So I know that if I didn’t go through that period of time, I would’ve been further ahead in my life basically. And going through that time, you got high staff, like you said, high turnover, staff issues, not managing well, doing things based on reactions, doing things based on what you’re feeling, affecting personal relationships, affecting partners and stuff like that. It just affected all round, just everything as a bubble. So yeah, it’s a hard time, but it’s definitely not the way to go if a guy that’s got high ambitions and stuff like that is trying to achieve these things. But then what you’re doing is actually completely sabotaging that part of what you want and where you want to go. It’s the main nail, as we call it, nail in your side that you need to pull to get to that next level.

Speaker 3 (00:40:19):

Yeah, I think when you live at those extremes, no matter what it is or what you’re doing, it is going to cost you time. It’s the slowest way to get there. And I think the other thing, it’s ineffective to have at some point more desire, bigger dreams. They don’t help. It’s got to meet with disciplined execution. There’s got to be a framework, there’s got to be a pathway, like you said. There’s a reason why business is set up the way business works, and there is schools of business that teach you how to do this stuff. And I think that’s all to the other side of what you were experiencing. What was your identity then at the time? How would you have described yourself as a person just at this time? Because I want to get into the switch that you’ve made since and start to talk about that deeper level.

(00:41:02):

But what would you say your identity was if I said, I don’t know, give me three words for, “Hey, describe yourself,” but you’re pretty good at describing yourself, so what do you got?

Speaker 1 (00:41:10):

Superficial, egotistical, selfish. During those times, I just feel everything was really surface level.

Speaker 3 (00:41:24):

Did you like yourself at the time? With this awareness you’ve got now, were you aware of it at the time? Did you enjoy being you at the time with that?

Speaker 1 (00:41:33):

No, I wasn’t really aware of it at the time. It was just not great at reflecting. I’ve never been a great self-aware guy, reflective guy. Up until that point, the last few years I’ve gotten better at it. But yeah, at that time, I just didn’t really have a lot of self-reflection on it. I knew I was doing something that I needed to do and I needed to change, but just didn’t really have a lot of thought about who I personally needed to change and become or who I personally was at the time. I didn’t want to take accountability for anything in my own personal life. I was like, “This is Luca, take it or leave it.” I had that real stubborn mentality like, “This is just me. Yeah, you guys just take it or leave it.” And that’s real bad for a relationship too. That’s what really, really affected my relationship with Helena.

(00:42:24):

It just wasn’t good for us.

Speaker 3 (00:42:27):

What did you then do to start that bore? A lot of people are in that position now. You know that it’s not right. You know that something’s not working. You can see that the trains are going to collide at some point if I keep going on this path. You have that realisation. Was there a moment that crystallised the need for you to change identity and really go deep on this sort of stuff? You wouldn’t have called it identity, I don’t think at the time, but you would’ve had that feeling like this is it. There’s a line in the sand moment here that I need to really commit to a long-term, slow, steady, uprooting, everything that you didn’t want, by the way. But what was that moment for you that happened that made this become your priority?

Speaker 1 (00:43:17):

There’s a hitting a brick wall moment, and then there’s so many little things that happen over time that eventually end up changing where you want to go. And I think I had a little bit of both. I started seeing a psychologist and I started talking about the things that I didn’t want to be anymore. I started to lean in and take a little bit just a little bit. I should have taken a lot, but I started taking a little bit of accountability over time and going, okay, well, what can I do better? What do I need to change? And there was a lot of little tiny moments. I guess one of the biggest ones honestly was a group because being in PravaR and being around other people that are trying to make those personal changes and being around a vulnerable group of men in construction was a big change for me.

(00:44:00):

And when I saw guys in the group that were quitting drinking and quitting partying and that type of thing to really focus on their families and focus on their businesses, it really showed that whatever else was happening or what I was doing outside was not the norm. And whilst the trade space in general, there’s a big thing out there that tradies, they drink, they go out on Fridays, they go to the pub and all that type of thing. And I thought that that was just normal. I though that that was a normal thing to do. And even my group of friends who were entrepreneurs would go out on weekends and have benders and all that type of thing. And I think it was the people that I was surrounding myself around the time. It just made it feel normal. And I think that then jumping into the group as well, on top of having a psychologist on top of starting to become a little bit more self-aware every month and whatever it was and taking a little bit more accountability and then seeing guys in the group that were making these huge changes because they were dropping things that weren’t serving them anymore, might’ve served them in the past, but stuff they’re doing, they weren’t serving them.

(00:45:06):

And then I’ve gone, “Okay, well, I think this needs to drop.” And there was one morning I woke up after having a bender and I just went, “I think I’ve had enough.” And I literally just burst down into tears. I remember I was sitting out on my pool deck and it was like nine o’clock in the morning or whatever, and Helena was sitting next to me and I was just bawling my eyes out. And I said, “I don’t know how the hell to stop. I don’t know what to do, but I’m fucking over it. I’m just so sick of it.” And then she’s gone, “Cool, let’s work on it and see what happens.” So that was the headbutt in the wall moment for me on top of the stacking things. But that headbutt in the wall moment was when things really started progressing from there.

Speaker 2 (00:45:50):

It’s amazing. We spoke around that in the episode, just gone around change the room that you’re in. And Dan, there’s a real life example that we can tie back to that in episode 123 around changing the room you’re in. And what Luke is talking around is there is when you’re in a certain room, that room can become your ceiling because that behaviour is acceptable. It’s the norm, it’s the conversations you have, it’s the behaviour in terms of how you show up, what you do, how you talk, how you act. But as Luca was in a different room in the coaching environment at Pravar, the standards were higher, the expectations were higher, the behaviour was different. And Luca talks a little bit of what he was saying there, Luca. You were saying, well, this isn’t what the trades industry is like. Well, actually the trades industry is very big on a lot of mental health issues, a lot of drinking, a lot of partying, a lot of broken marriages, a lot of broken this, but our room is different.

(00:46:49):

And that room that you are in started shaping. It almost held you to a higher standard and that.

Speaker 1 (00:47:08):

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 3 (00:47:09):

So Luca, as you go through this identity work, you get to that threshold moment and the tools you’ve had, everything you’ve done has sort of been around, and the lifestyle you’ve led, just the environment you’ve been in this whole time is about more, it’s about bigger, it’s about vision, it’s about what’s the next thing that adds to this story. You start to work on identity and you’re going, “I don’t want that anymore.” It’s almost like this psychological cut, right? In terms of starting to transition that and start to change into who you are today without getting into who you are, the first thing I can see coming up for you is trust and fear. There had to be some moment where you felt like you were in a bit of free fall. And what were the emotions that flooded into that space that you created to start with?

(00:47:51):

Was it fear? Was it, how am I going to trust people? What am I doing next? Or was it the same, “This is Luke or I’m just going to go into the next chapter of adventure?” How did you approach it?

Speaker 1 (00:48:03):

I’ve always been a very forward thinker, and I think that’s what has held me back from sitting back and reflecting a fair bit. So being a forward thinker, I was like, “All right, I’ve had my meltdown. I want to change my life. This is the direction where I need to go.” But to do that as well, I had to sit there and I also had to question my love for myself too. And I had to go like, “You’re doing this to yourself on weekends and stuff like that. Who do you want to be? How do you want to change? But then what are the fundamentals behind it?” And so I realised I had to then just sit down and question how I felt about myself first. And then when I started to do that internal work over a series of a few months, it became easier to let go of old habits because I started to learn and reflect about who Luca actually is underneath everything, I guess.

(00:48:53):

And then go back to maybe who Luca was before the age of 10 and stuff like that, who I was hit and that type of thing. So I think it was a real. That’s when the self-reflection really started from that point. Yeah, correct. Headbutt hit the wall. Why am I doing this? I need to have a bit more love for myself and find out what’s happening deep inside that’s getting me to do these things and realising that I don’t love myself enough and I need to learn who I am and how to respect myself. And then also then how to then become self-aware of the things that I’m doing to then learn how to change because it was like the only way I could then change was to just become aware of the things that I was doing. So then I guess the awareness started, and then that’s when the identity shift started from that point.

(00:49:43):

That was probably the biggest leg up was letting go of those old weekend habits and go to that next stage to start operating and I guess at a higher level and not such a low frequency.

Speaker 2 (00:49:57):

And that was a big journey for you, wasn’t it, Luca, where you did a lot of work and in the community you were very voiceous around your willingness to step into that space of changing your relationship with alcohol, the journey you went on personally that you mentioned before around going to see a psychologist. That was a huge part of your personal journey there. And you were very open about it to everyone in the group around the journey you were going on personally.

Speaker 1 (00:50:27):

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think because the group allowed it too, it was an environment where we just felt so comfortable in talking about where we were going, but because we’ve seen other people take those steps and seeing that gives you so much courage that you can do it as well. And then so knowing that other guys have gone, oh yeah, I just don’t drink anymore and I haven’t had a drink for two years. And you’re like, What? That’s not the norm in Australia. What are you talking about? But then you look at your own habits and you’re like, wow, that’s something that can be done. And you can see the things that are happening to these people who are dropping, if they’ve got a bad relationship with alcohol and substances and dropping them completely and seeing where their life goes in the following two years or year or whatever it is, and then going, hang on a minute, I want a piece of that.

(00:51:13):

I want to know what that life looks like. And I wanted to experience that. I wanted to know what it was.

Speaker 2 (00:51:21):

Yeah, we talk about in coaching a lot where we talk about that success leaves clues. And whenever you look at someone and go, Gee, I admire that person for what they’ve got, it’s so important that you don’t look at what they’ve got. You look at who they are and look for the clues of who they are, what they do, and the behaviours and the consistency of those behaviours and actions that they demonstrate on a daily basis. And this is what Luke is talking around, that he started to see clues from the other people who are in front of them in their journey to be able to go, “Well, I admire that person in coaching for what they’re doing. Okay, well, instead of being envious and playing the comparison game, how do I look at what their behaviours are?” And these guys were going on these big personal journeys.

(00:52:07):

They were working on themselves. They would get ridding of behaviours that weren’t conducive to growth and expansion. They were changing their relationship with time, within their marriages, within their families, with alcohol. And all of a sudden, Luca, you started to change all these things. And that was a big part of eliminating these big peaks and troughs. And the more you worked on you and got more consistent and levelled yourself out by eliminating those bad toxic behaviours, it was a real turning point in your journey, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (00:52:38):

Yeah, 100% turning point. And having the group around you to support you through that has been amazing, especially the earlier stages of changing habits because you’re getting triggered. You’re constantly getting triggered when you are in the earlier stages of changing habits. And the group around you is even indirectly knowing that the group’s there going, “Well, I want to make these guys proud because I want to show these guys what I’m made of and what I can do.” And when you’re trying to do it on your own, it’s so much harder than having a group of like-minded individuals around you to help you go through these. And it did definitely help with the journey because you’d be bouncing off other guys that are on the same journey and going, “We’re all changing our identity together through these ways.” And it just really helped.

Speaker 3 (00:53:28):

How did it show up in business? We’ve talked about the journey you’re actually doing, the personal side of it. Did you feel absent at that time in the business and the business suffered because of it? Or was it almost like an immediate like, “Well, I’m changing. This is a better thing to be doing. I’m seeing some consistency. I’ve got some standards in place that are really helpful,” and it translated to a positive thing in the business? Or was there a lag? How did it translate into your business world?

Speaker 1 (00:53:54):

I just started to influence the team we had. So I’d share my story and my journey with our team, and then three months later we’d have one of the guys go, “Oh, I’ve just decided to stop drinking for the month.” And then it was like all of a sudden now the influential side is coming through into the team members, but they’re seeing you wake up every morning, go to the gym, operate at a really high level of work with lots of clarity. You’re not having any crashes and bad Tuesdays from the weekend and that type of thing. And it adds a level, it raises a level of standard throughout the whole business. And you’re indirectly influencing other people, which in turn, you go from running a business at this level to then running a business at the next level because everyone else is starting to operate very similar to where your head space is.

(00:54:42):

And so I found that before, everybody would essentially operate to how you were. So however you are, the business would feed into that. Even though they weren’t doing the exact same things you were doing, some were. But even if you weren’t, it was just the level of energy and the frequency that you’re bringing into the business. And then when that changes, it automatically changes the frequency of the whole business as well to go to the next level and go, “Hang on, wait, things are a little bit more serious now. We’re growing.” And between, I think 2021 is when the late 2020 and 2021 is when that all started for us. And it was like, well, running a team with an admin person and 10 guys on site versus a year later we had a project manager and someone in operations in the office, and then we had a site supervisor and it all happened within 12 months.

(00:55:29):

Because I made those changes personally, it transitioned into the business very, very quickly. And I started to get clear on my goals in the business as well and started to stick to those goals. So our quarterly plays, our yearly plays, and I started to be less shiny, lighty. I started to flop and change less. Not saying that I was perfect at it, but it just really helped us gain some momentum and really helped something stick way better than what they would otherwise if I was still stuck in those zones.

Speaker 2 (00:56:03):

Yeah, it comes back to that saying we talk about all the time is that in leadership, the fish rots from the head down and that everything starts and stops with you as a leader. If things are going great, that’s probably because it’s a reflection of your leadership. If things aren’t going so great, there’s all these other things we can blame. But more honestly than not, it’s probably a reflection of your leadership. And it just shows Luca, that there’s a chalk and cheese story there. When you were not on the top of your game, the business was operating not to its full potential, but the moment you started raising your standards and your expectations, your self-accountability, the moment you started showing up differently as a better man, better leader, more consistent on your own personal front, it’s amazing that just trickled down into the business and the expectations and standards change.

(00:56:53):

And as a result, the business started to, it took off in 12 months. And it’s not that the market mysteriously changed, it just you changed.

Speaker 1 (00:57:04):

Yeah. And it was almost like no structure to structure, but it was coincidentally at the time that we made the personal changes. And we were still in Pravar before I made the changes, but it was all of a sudden when the personal changes were made, that’s when things clicked in a gear. And that’s what started the real development of the structure of the business really and growing to that next level.

Speaker 3 (00:57:25):

Yeah, we talk about that idea, Rob, a lot around for things to change first, you must change. And I think Luca’s a prime example of that. Having the knowledge, having the coaching, having the community, all the ingredients are there, but until you actually make that change and go through it, it’s almost like an intellectual pursuit rather than the experience that you get, the change, the results that you need. So it was a really critical time. And I think Luca, for you, did you enjoy it? Were you a guy that. Some people go into this growth phase and this transition phase, and they love that challenge and they’re working through it. Some are kicking and screaming, some are just forced into it. How would you say that initial or that big identity shift was for you? Not looking back, but in the moment.

Speaker 1 (00:58:12):

It’s hard because you’re getting a mirror held up and the mirror starts to get held up quite often when you’re making some quick changes. And you have to come to terms with who you are and who you also need to shed to who you need to become. So there’s a couple of things. It becomes really empowering, but it’s also very difficult because you have to let go of a lot of old versions of yourself at the same time. So you’re kind of feeling both ways. But if you’re committed like I was committed enough, I felt empowered enough to push through the hard stuff and the identity shifting and the identity shedding to get to that next stage. And also just be honest with myself, just be real with myself about the shit I need to take accountability for. But then like I said, the empowering side of it was definitely outweighed, I guess, how hard it was to make an identity shift.

Speaker 3 (00:59:11):

Yeah, nice. Next little thing that comes across, you talk about identity shifts. We’re probably only a couple of years after this, we’re into 2024 period here, but you become a father. And that is then the next, you talk about mirrors getting held up all over the place and all those sort of things. It’s one of those ones that it’s in a way a forced identity shift or you adopt this next identity of becoming a father. How much of your world changed as a result of that? Was it an immediate thing? Was it a, here we go again on an identity shift? Or did you just walk your way through it and gradually adopt this role?

Speaker 1 (00:59:47):

Last night I was up all night with him because he had a fever of 40. So you definitely have to change quick and on the spot when shit like that happens. Poor little guy. Yeah, that was the biggest shocker.

Speaker 3 (00:59:59):

How’s the control for Freaking you going at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):

Mr. Fix It. Mr. Fix it. Mr. Fix it. Trying to fix everything and I can’t fix This. Do you know what I mean? And I have to be there for him rather than fix things for him. And that’s one thing that this is a new journey I’m going through now, which is hard again because I’ve been so into there’s a problem, there’s a solution, there’s a problem, there’s a solution. And there’s always been a solution for everything, but now it’s like I’ve got to hold Louie and make him feel comfortable when he’s not well and be there for him. And I’m not used to that. It’s hard. It’s triggering. And Helena’s coaching me through it and saying that sometimes he just needs you to be there and not to fix anything. And yeah, it’s just really hard for me, Dan. Last year we had him April last year. It was such a shock to my system and quick smart had to change very, very quick.

(01:00:58):

I had no choice to learn this new version of Luca that I had to become to be able to be the dad that Louie needs me to be. I had to look at what I was doing at work, what I was doing at home, how I was supporting the family, the new gears that I needed to find very, very, very, very quickly to step up to that plate. Because before going into fatherhood, I though, oh, I’m fairly adaptive person and fairly moldable and I’m very good at adapting to my environments and stuff like that. But then I think I was very under-prepared for what it actually takes to be a good father. Very, very underprepared.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):

And there’s the preparedness for it, but there’s also this idea you’ve just done a massive identity shift. You’ve worked hard to create this identity that you’ve chosen now, not the one that you’ve just adopted or fallen into for your whole life, which most people do, but you’ve chosen and crafted and done all of that, and now you’ve got to get this next shift here, whether you like it or not, you’ve got to make some choices around that. Was that a hard thing for you to do or was the acceptance there from the get-go? Because control freaks tend to resist a thrust upon them sort of choice. A choice has to be made. It has to be in line with things that you are perceiving that you control. How did you go with that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):

Well, I realised that I needed to change the way I think about things because when I’m in a situation and he’s crying all night and I’m getting angry, I’m getting upset and I’m going, and then I can either be upset for the rest of his life every single time I can’t fix an issue and he’s crying and I’m getting triggered. Do you know what I mean? It’s like I can live that way or I can reflect and sit back and go, who do I need to become to not get triggered? What do I need to do? How do I need to change my way of thinking to not be triggered in these situations anymore? And to go, I need to rewire my brain to adapt to these type of environments and go, okay, well, this is actually what I need to do to not be triggered.

(01:03:04):

All those easy path out is just going, oh, this is part of me that I’m not good at. Helena, you take over because I’m not good at this part. Rather than now I’m not doing that. I’m doing the opposite and going, what do I need to do and who would I need to become to be okay in all these types of situations with Louie so I can show up as the best version of myself?

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):

Awesome. I love that. And everything you just said then, how did that translate into business in your own leadership style? Has it translated? Have you been able to join the dots between that recipe would work really well in a business sense as well?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):

Same thing. I’d literally just be saying the same information. It’s like copy paste.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):

Great. I love it. But people miss that, right? They miss that side. They think there’s a different version. I’ve got to show up as someone different, this compulsion to be someone else, to somehow say that I’m either not good at it or I’ll fake it till I make it. All this shit we tell ourselves in a work environment, but it’s still you the person and your best version of you needs to show up regardless of where it is. If you’re going to have this idea of a successful business, which is sort of my next question to you is how did that definition of success change over that period now? And how has it shifted from shiny cars and big teams and the biggest business I can possibly have? How has it shifted now that the identity’s shifted? Because it does.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):

Yeah, it does change a lot. And my whole identity was wanting more and the shiny lights and the materialistic things, and that was a lot of my identity in the past. And to have those big shifts to where they are now where it’s like, I want to make sure that the family’s comfortable and secure and Louie’s as healthy as he possibly can, and Helena’s got enough support and the businesses are profitable and the staff are happy and we’ve still got opportunity. And I’m creating something bigger than myself where I can step away eventually and have GMs on board and stuff like that running the business and more so looking at life and the way I want to live my life versus the way my life is seen from the outside, if that makes sense. And then so even when I started to change that mindset, even my posting on social media went just down to the ground because I got no interest in telling people about my personal life anymore, and I’ve got no interest in showing people what I got.

(01:05:29):

And there’s still an element of bragging here and there a little bit because that’s deep down. I think it’s a little bit in my core. I still have that. But fundamentally where I’ve changed is basically looking at life and going, it’s not going to be dangerous for the family, buying an Audi and losing $100,000 in value, which I did this a few years ago in the space of a couple of years, is that going to get us ahead? Is that going to get us to that next level? Is that going to be conducive to our growth? Is that going to be good for Louie? And so the mindset has completely shifted now around what my goals are for the family and what I go to work for, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):

We talk about that in coaching where we talk about building a life that feels good, not building a life that looks good. And this is this principle in play where it’s gone from what’s this life look like from the outside rather than what’s this feel like from the inside? And you’ve turned that corner big time. And this just shows that comment you made before where it’s like, well, a lot of guys in business have this mindset going, well, I’ve either got to be a good businessman or a good family man. And this just proves that you can be both. And at PravaR, we believe you can be both and we’ve proven it time and time again. And that’s our mission is to debunk this myth that it’s one or the other because being a better father makes you a better leader. Being a better leader makes you a better father.

(01:06:59):

And when you combine the two together, you build a beautiful life and a life that feels good, not a life that looks good from the outside in. And that’s what you’ve proven to yourself and to a lot of people around you, isn’t it, Luca, that you can have both. You can have a great business. It can be profitable. You can be a player in the marketplace in terms of the way that you operate and the great work that you do. You can be an awesome husband to Helena and you can be a great dad to Louie and be a great family man. And you can have it, I don’t want to say you can have it all, but you can have all of what you want. And that’s now your definition of success, isn’t it?

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):

Pretty much, yeah. And on reflection, when you look at it, I’ve spent for a trades business owner, I spend a really good amount of time with my family. And I think I’m starting to look at the definition of success in those types of ways now. And I leave to go to work at 7:30, 8:00 in the morning, and I’m home by 2:30. And that’s my definition of success now. And there were times where I would make that my only definition of success and I’d not have the business interests at heart either and not look at the profits and stuff. But now I’m very profit-driven, I’m very leadership driven, I’m very family driven, but I’m making sure I’m balancing those areas of my life and put into the business where I need to. Yesterday I was having meetings at one of our job sites at four o’clock in the afternoon because I needed to, so I’m still not shy to doing what I need to do to keep the cogs turning in the business.

(01:08:32):

But from a general framework, I feel like making all of these personal changes has allowed me to run a couple of great businesses and still give my. I’m really proud of how much time I put into the family for a person that runs a trades business. And I think that’s something that’s starting to become my values now, if that makes sense. My values are shifting, so I’m liking it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):

All right. So Luca, I could keep talking about this all day. It’s just right in the wheelhouse of what we love to do, the whole integration of our legacies, all of that sort of stuff. But let’s turn the corner again, change gears a little bit. Give us an explanation. I think to start with just where the business is at today, because we’ve skipped over a fair bit in terms of the structure and some of the big business levers that you have pulled. So maybe what does the business look like today or businesses? And then we’ll go from there in terms of where those go, what they look like, and where you’re going to take them. So give us that view of the world today.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):

Yeah, so we took Aesthetic Tile and Stone, our installation business from 2013 to where it is today. We’ve got a structure in place with a project manager, site supervisor, admin estimator, part-time accounts, and our ground crew as well with subcontractors and stuff. So that’s where Aesthetic Tile & Stone is. A couple of years ago, we started a supply arm called the Tile Supply, and we knew that our builders wanted the service of getting tiles supplied, and we thought it’d be a complimentary add-on service to our business. So yeah, a couple of years ago we started that. We opened up a showroom in the heart of the Gold Coast and I brought in a business partner and we’ve been able to go to market with tiles for Aesthetic Tile & Stone, but mainly to the retail market and other builders and everything else for that. So we’ve been able to structure that business because my business partner is basically the operations manager as well of the tile supply.

(01:10:26):

So I’ve been able to focus on the tile supply side of things from the general manager perspective, and my day-to-day operations mainly revolves around our installation department. So between the two businesses, we run out of the same office because we run at the back of the tile shop and that’s where we run the offices and we cross share some of the stuff between the two to save money, which has really helped us financially with the second business as well. And that’s where we’re at today with the businesses.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):

Awesome. You talked about your big project when you started. What’s a big project or a big chunk of work for you guys look like today in comparison?

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):

Yeah, so we’ll get a resi project, could be a couple of mil now. And for one, that’s installation only for a house. We’ve got a commercial project that we’re doing at the moment that’s in the multiple seven figures as well. So yeah, we’re looking at those types of numbers. And it’s kind of scary to think that it was only a few years ago that those numbers were completely, not even out of reach, but not even thought of. We thought that a job of a hundred grand was our ceiling, and that was the jobs that I was hunting to sit on for a few months. And then I think that the ceiling has lifted and my upper limiting beliefs have lifted to go to that next level to see what’s actually available in the market and what we can actually target now for what we do.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):

And the Gold Coast in Southeast Queensland is such a great market at the moment. There’s so many opportunities. The landscapes change, the quality and the quantity of homes. Gold Coast has always been renowned for the flash, but it’s a different market now, isn’t it? It’s an exciting space for you to be in. I’m so glad you took that step of doing supply and instal. It’s such a good complimentary business. And we spoke around it where you can make margin there and margin there. It’s just such a great business model, but you’re in a really good market now, aren’t you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):

Yeah, the Gold Coast is becoming like its own little economy now. And a lot of the big, big players like Grayer and White Fox Real Estate and everything else, they’re coming here and setting up a big, big basis here. And there’s tech entrepreneurs coming here building 20, 30, 40 million houses. A lot of it seems to be shifting here at the moment. Glad because I call it home and I’ve always been here. So I’m lucky that it shifted to the market where we’re at. But yeah, there’s plenty of opportunities at the moment on the Gold Coast. It’s a great market to be.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):

Where do you see that next thing for you now? What’s next mean to you? If I said what’s next, what is it for you?

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):

Oh, that’s a hard one. At the moment, I’m very feet on the ground. I’ve been head in the clouds for so long and running things off a whim. And then now I’m very focused on leadership, team structure. I guess just the whole dialling in of our team. I don’t have any massive goals at the moment for where I want the businesses to go, but I’m very focused on the internal side of the business. I’m focused on dialling in what we’ve currently got because it’s something that I’ve lacked for so many years and I’ve never actually practised sitting inside the business working on the inside of the business. I’ve always focused on growth, growth, growth, growth, growth. So then now I guess the next part is also just developing those new skills as a leader to then make the businesses the best that they possibly can be.

(01:14:04):

But I know the byproduct with that, it’s just going to be natural growth again. So rather than focusing on the growth and growing with a broken structure and a broken team, I’m focusing on the internal side and then essentially that’ll create the growth.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):

I love it. That swap that you’re talking about right there is swapping more for better. Now you’ve adopted better as the next as opposed to more. And that’s another thing that comes with the identity shift that you’ve had, which is amazing to see. It does track. I know the story sounds incredible and in the scale and the magnitude it is, but I think, Rob, the message out of all of this is this is a predictable thing for the business to transform, for anything to transform, there has to be a starting point. And it is the owner of the business. It always comes back to that, these stories that we get to tell and be part of. As amazing as they are and as enjoyable as they can be and how big the rides can be, it always comes back to that idea of for things to change first, you must change.

(01:15:03):

And that’s a real starting point I think for anyone listening to this episode. Like you said, don’t get caught up in the flash and the numbers and the stories. Get caught up in what it was that actually triggered the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):

Yeah. When we tell these stories of client features, there’s plenty of numbers we can throw around in terms of revenue and team size and profit and structure and all those types of things. But what we’re trying to do is give an insight and almost peel back the curtains to be able to go, well, because we see it in the community, in our communities, it’s like, well, if that person’s got that, don’t look at what they’ve got. Look at who they become. And that’s what these stories is about is we’re trying to give you as a listener to be able to see, well, what did Luca do? And what were the behaviours and what were the mindset shifts and who did he have to become to be able to create these epic businesses that he’s got? And this is why a lot of people get into business thinking, well, business is going to give me this lifestyle, but they don’t realise that business is the biggest personal development journey that you’ll ever go on.

(01:16:03):

And it’s almost the hardest path and the hardest journey you’ll ever go on because your business is an absolute reflection of you and you are an absolute reflection of your business. And in order for your business to succeed, you’ve got to grow as a person. And that’s why we’ve said a number of times that really business is just really a personal development journey wrapped around an ABN. And that’s why this journey of business ownership is so hard because you’ve got to be constantly working on yourself day in, day out to become a better leader, become a better manager, become a better version of you. Otherwise, you at some point will become the ceiling in your own organisation if you’re already not the ceiling right now. So yeah, hopefully by listening today, you’ve enjoyed Luca’s story because we’ve tried to really, Dan, we’ve tried to really take the listener on a journey to be able to go, well, what are the things that Luke has had to really change in order to be able to be the epic leader and epic husband and father, family man and businessman that he is today?

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):

Definitely. Luke, amazing amount of work’s gone into this from your end. One more question from me is how would you sum up or what would you say is the biggest benefit for coaching and talking to the listener that might be on that fence and sort of going, I know everything you’re saying sounds so true, but I don’t know if this is for me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):

I think it is the group. Honestly, if I was to put it down to it, I just don’t think I would’ve made any of the big personal changes. And like you said, Rob, business is just a big personal development journey. And that’s what if you want to do well in business, that’s what you got to embrace. You have to embrace a personal development journey. But I think doing that on your own, if I was to do this on my own, there was no way in hell I’d be where I’d be today. Not because of anything else other than really having the group there to lean on to make those big personal changes, pull those big personal nails out and have the leaders, the group to be able to help and support you. I’ve learned so much in business as well. I’m not taking that away.

(01:18:11):

I’ve learned so much about business being in coaching and having that, but the personal changes have been massive coming through and being involved around guys who have been on the same personal journeys and wanting to be better fathers, wanting to be better husbands or business owners, colleagues, family men, whatever it is. Yeah, I think you are who you hang around. And I think if we were to end on anything, that’s the biggest thing. And when you’re hanging around other people trying to do the same thing with the same mindset, with the same accountability, head space, that’s probably what’s been my biggest takeaway from coaching.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):

Yeah, really love that, Luca. And it’s so true. We spoke around that a lot in this episode. We spoke around in the episode before around the room that you’re in, is that the people you hang around have more influence on your success than you probably realise. So if this episode’s really resonated with you and you know that you’ve got to change the room that you’re in and you want to be able to make some changes to your business and your life, then jump across to strategysession.com.au. Fill out the application form, book at a time that suits you. And let’s talk a bit about where you’re at, where you’re trying to go and seeing if coaching can bridge the gap for that. Dan, what a great episode. We’ve thoroughly enjoyed it, haven’t we?

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):

Oh, absolutely. I told you it was going to be a ripper. You did amazing, Luca. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):

Cool. Thanks guys. Yeah, absolute pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):

Thanks again, Luca. Real appreciate it, mate. Thank you for coming and joining us. We really do appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):

Cool. Thanks, Rob. I appreciate it. Great to be here. And yeah, hopefully it added value to someone out there and in the space that wants to make some change. So yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):

Awesome. Good stuff. Thanks again, mate. Really appreciate it. And thanks for tuning in today and looking forward to coming back to you with another episode here on The Trade Den very shortly. Until then, take care.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):

See you soon.