Episode 16 Podcast Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It’s a bit of a proud moment for me to see everything that I was doing was coming to fruition and I was making some progress.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi everyone. Rob Kropp here and welcome back to another episode of the Trade Den. Great to have you back, Dan, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Very good, Rob. Excellent. The weather’s getting cold, but we’re just heating up on the Trade Den. So really looking forward to today.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Look at you go. Hey, really looking forward to today. We’ve got another client who’s going to be joining us today, Ben Wolff from Wolff Energy Solutions. Can’t wait to get stuck in today. We’ve got a ripping story and it’s going to be an absolute belter, so a big warm welcome to you, Ben. Thanks for coming and joining us today.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thanks Gents. Thanks for having me. Good to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So Ben, welcome along. As Rob said, before we get started, the usual thing when we do a case study or quiet feature, let’s get to know you a little bit. Can you give us your sort of rundown, full name, the business you own?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, sure. So Ben Wolff, I’m the owner of Wolff Energy Solutions. We’ve been in business since July, 2015. We employ currently 13 people, 8 ground crew and 5 office crew. And we’ve also got an array of contractors who sort of work from ad hoc to full-time, depending on certain projects and whatnot. I started coaching back in November, 2018. That was when I did the leverage programme with Rob.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Six years. Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Part of the furniture now, mate.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
You are indeed. You are indeed. How many hours a week are you working at this stage?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
At this stage I work on average 40 hours a week. And that sort of just goes up and down depending on where we are in the month or quarter.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Good stuff, mate. Love it. And recently a dad to Jack. How are you enjoying dad life? What’s your favourite part?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
At the moment is getting home and watching his face light up and he does this sort of little bit of a shake and a jig. He recognise it’s me. So just every day with him, he’s just always changing, doing something new and he is just getting more and more interactive at the moment. So just a big ball of fun and just such a happy kid. So yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Love it. And how are you and Catherine going? Are you enjoying parenthood and enjoying your little family?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, it’s really good just sort of spending, spending as much time together and focusing on building our own little family and little day trips on the weekends and just really enjoying being at home together, spending that time together.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Good stuff, mate. And I know that Dan’s a bit of a rev head. He loves his Formula one and you’re a bit the same. You love your cars and your racing. Tell us a bit about your passions outside work.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, so I’ve always been a bit of a roughhead. I love my Subaru WRX s, I’ve had a fair few of those in my time and also a big fan of Formula one, Red Bull supporters. So we’re currently on top. Mercedes aren’t doing too well. Dan, are they?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And that’s our episode. Thanks for coming on, Ben.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Don’t be like that, mate.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
You’re absolutely right. It’s not a good time for Mercedes supporters, but we’ve had a pretty good run and you guys aren’t putting your foot wrong, so there’s not much we can say about that.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That’s it, mate. If you’re not first, you’re last.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Trust spoken like a true Red Bull supporter. That’s fine. Should we dig into this, Rob?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Let’s do it. Looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
All right, terrific. So Ben, let’s start off your journey. I think where we’re going to kick off is just sort of an understanding of probably earlier in your journey and before you started coaching what business and life was like, where was the business at when you found us, and just a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, sure. So before I started coaching, we were turning over $700k. There was only myself and a handful of guys. I had a tradesmen and apprentice at the time, and I had part-time admin as well. I was working 60 plus hours on the tools. So most days Monday to Friday was a 12 hour, 12 hour day on the tools. And sometimes it’d flow into Sundays as well depending on what I had on. And I’d do about 20 hours of work on top of that in the office doing admin, invoicing, quoting all the rest of it. That comes with being a business owner. I felt like when I was home I wasn’t present and I’ve almost felt like a bit of a burden because I don’t know, I couldn’t really focus and give the attention I needed to at home. And even to the extent of friends and family, I just felt a bit disconnected and I felt like I couldn’t really relate to anyone.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And that sounds like a pretty regular story. I’m sure if you’re listening you probably can relate to the long hours, the wearing all the hats and everything that’s going on at that point. I think what is also normal in this story or what we’re talking about today is that not many people really knew what was going on. They’d see all that work, that effort, maybe the frustration you had in terms of progress, but there was a lot more going on in the background, which not many people knew about.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, and you go to family or family barbecues or catchups with friends and everyone ask, how’s business, how’s work going? And you just sort of put on a facade and say, oh, it’s going really well and we’re really busy and we’ve won this job and we’re doing this and we’re doing this to make it sound exciting. But in the background you’re just thinking, just really don’t like where I’m at the moment, not having a good time, stressed, overworked, underpaid, but you’d never tell anyone. You wouldn’t tell anyone that because they wouldn’t understand. And you’d also, you’re trying to enjoy some time outside of work. You don’t want to bring up all that sort of conversation and those sorts of memories. So I just kept it all to myself.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
For sure. And what was it that you were sort of keeping to yourself? If you answered that question truthfully, back in those days, everyone does it by the way. It’s always, what are you doing? We’re busy. Great. That means you can leave me alone and I’ll ask you and you can say busy and we can move on with our conversation. But if you really were going to answer that question truthfully, what was life really like back then in terms of the challenges you were facing?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well, I guess from a personal point of view, it was feeling just that lack of confidence and self-worth within myself. I didn’t feel like I was deserving of success because of all the challenges that were going on that was just sort of all sort of snowballing and then had to flow into just general life with relationships, family, just general connections, connections. I just didn’t feel like I knew where to turn or what to do next to try and move forward. I just felt like I was just trapped and in a bit of a hole.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And you were facing some pretty big business challenges along the way. Do you want to talk a little bit about those?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, so on the business front we were sort of I guess working for for the wrong people and in the wrong markets. I didn’t have the right team around me at the time. We had around $250k in debt to ATO and suppliers, which was about a third of our revenue at the time. So it was an enormous hill to try and climb whilst trying to get out on the tools every day and bring in some more revenue and income to pay back those debts. So it was hard. It was hard. Owning and working in a business that wasn’t profitable just felt, I just felt trapped working those hours because I felt like I needed to just keep up with those repayments.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And obviously that’s not what you had in mind. I mean it must’ve been hard mentally how much of that mental struggle will of get into, but how much of that was just out of frustration of this is not what I had in mind and I’m too far to be able to go anywhere else?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Well, I went into business to try and get some more freedom and more of my time back, but I felt like the opposite was happening. So instead of me getting more freedom and more of my time back to go and enjoy life outside of work, it was shackling me down and I just feel like there wasn’t a way out and I was just spinning my wheels. But ultimately I guess I didn’t want to let anyone down. So who I was working for, my team, my family, my partner at the time, Catherine, who’s now my wife. So I just felt like I needed to just keep pushing through it to make sure that I paid back every cent to get back on top.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It must’ve felt like a pretty big burden that you were carrying, no doubt that you were shouldering a big heavy weight on your shoulders by the sounds of it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, it felt like it was too much at times. There was days, days and weeks and even months there where it just felt like it was all too much and you just wanted to give it all away. I felt like my mental health at the time was sort of spiralling out of control and I just didn’t know a way out or how to progress forward.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Often these things have a way of sneaking up on us and we sort of realise that, hey, things aren’t right here, they need to change. But when you were, did you have any inkling of what was landing you in that hole, if you like, when you first started, was there anything that was leading, you spoke about some of those emotions and what you felt was sort of swirling around. Did that come before you were in the hole? Were you dealing with any of that stuff to begin with?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
To begin with? I guess I carried a lot of self self-doubt and low self-worth. So leading into some of those issues coming to light, it was almost like I was on the back foot before that. And then once I started to encounter more and more of those issues and struggles and challenges, it just sort of expanded and seemed to snowball the whole situation.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Rob talked about the burden, I suppose everything’s sort of just piling on at this point. You have those challenges, you get challenged even more when you start a business and then you get lumped with the physical toll on you. I mean, what sort of toll and what sort of was happening outside of the mental state, the business? What physically was the experience you were having at the time?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
At the time I just felt tired all the time. So you’d get out eight hours sleep, but you feel like you’ve only had two hours. So I just felt like I always needed to sleep. I was always tired running on caffeine. My diet wasn’t great either, so you always felt like you didn’t have enough time. So you could take away here, you quickly grab that sometime you miss a meal. I was just, I know burning the candle at both ends.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That’s a pretty deep hole mate. I mean, you’ve talked around the mental state of self-belief, self-worth, a lack of energy, all these things that are sort of lacking. If you sort of said to yourself, what do you need to get out? I’d imagine you’d be saying, well, I need all those things that I know I haven’t got, which landed me in this position in the first place. So if I don’t have the energy, I need it. If I haven’t got the self-belief, I better find it. What was it and how did you take those first steps when all those things lacking were what required? So getting back to zero from being in the hole, what was sort of those first steps that you started to take?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, well, I obviously knew something needed to change because I just couldn’t continue on that path. So I had had to look within to try and work out what was something small that I could focus on initially to I guess get these small little quick wins instead of trying to make sweeping change. What’s one bad habit I can remove now and replace with a good habit? And I’d sort of start off with something really small. So I think I started with hydration, so just making sure I was drinking enough water through the day and once that habit was sort of embedded, I’d pick the next bad thing. So takeaway, remove that and supplemented it with meal prep and what not, and then it just kept going from there. So trying to get those little small wins instead of looking at everything that was wrong and then trying to remove all those bad habits and replace all of them with good habits because I’ve tried to do that in the past and then I’ve always just fell over and just gone back to square one. So I think just developing those little quick wins along the way helped me get, I guess from the bottom to start to see some improvements and positivity come back through.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Great. And was those first steps taken in coaching or was this part of your lead up into going, Hey, here’s the next layer of help I need.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Those action steps started after I got into coaching when I surrounded myself with like-minded people in business in the group and also Rob and coaches. So just to see that I’m, I’m not alone and there was other people going through the same challenges, so I felt like I came along with the journey with other people. I don’t think I could have started it on my own.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So maybe let’s just go back a step. Can you remember that moment? We always ask this question, I forgot to ask you, but let’s go there now. What was that moment where you really decided that you were going to get into coaching? What did that look like and what led up to that decision?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I think it would’ve just been coming to the realisation that I couldn’t physically work longer or harder than what I was. So that wasn’t an option. I couldn’t just increase my hours to then get myself out of that hole. I needed someone or something external to help me with guidance, just someone to I guess light the path for the way out because I just didn’t know how to navigate it myself. And I think that was a bit of a turning point for me just because I kept trying to increase my hours. If I work more and earn more, I’ll pay it off quicker. But obviously that wasn’t a reality. I was already capped. I couldn’t physically do any more physically or mentally. So I think finally coming to that realisation was what started the wheels in motion.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
And I think taking those small steps rather than trying to get it all back and climb out in one big leap, step by step little thing by little thing, a glass of water really started the whole journey. From what you’re saying that focus on yourself, can you explain how that translated into even more presence at home or changing your relationship because it’s counterintuitive that you’re focusing on yourself to write some of these things and these beliefs that you’ve held onto for so long yet your relationship with Catherine improved as a result of that. Was that a conscious choice to do that or was just you getting yourself right and people responding to what you were doing?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I think everything sort of stopped and started with me. So if I didn’t feel right or or I guess energetic, that would flow into everything else would flow into everything else in my life. So when I started to look after myself a bit more, then I started to feel better, then I guess I would be a more pleasant person to be around. So I think that definitely helped me become, I guess a better partner and whatnot that I needed to be.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And that would flow into your relationships with the team you had at the time, a better leader, all of those sort of things. Did you make a conscious effort to, again, like I said, you can’t dig yourself out with the tools you don’t have. What role did discipline play in this for you in terms of these early steps? Was it something that you had already or you had to develop that as well? At the same time?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I had to develop it at the same time. I didn’t have, I guess a strong discipline around my health and fitness and I guess mental wellbeing. So I needed to really unpack all of that and then pretty well just put it all back together and cement those new habits and I could become who I ultimately needed to be to get out of the hole.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Obviously when you are $250 grand in the hole with ATO and suppliers, your debt repayments per month must have been huge. Talk us through a little bit about the stress that put on you financially in the business and what flow and effects that ultimately had for you as the owner as well.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, so at the time, the repayments were about $15,000 a month and I didn’t have the revenue or the profit to support that, so I defaulted a few times. And then it was at the point where with the ATO and the suppliers where they were wanting to, I guess wind us up, I had the national credit manager for one of my suppliers in my office and I had to justify to him why he shouldn’t wind us up. And I had to just explain to him, this is what I’m trying to do to get out of it. And then I laid some groundwork and plan to get back on top of that, which they were happy with. So thankfully that all resolved itself. But as a flow on from that, realising that I didn’t have the revenue there or the profit to keep up with those repayments, I had to switch off off my income.
(17:38):
So I didn’t pay myself for about eight months. So through this whole process and paying us back, I was the lowest paid person in my business for about two years. That’s just because I was committed to paying back every cent. I didn’t want to let anyone down or just roll over and then have it all end and start again like most other people do. So I think that was the only way I could do it, and we sacrificed a lot at home for me to be able to do that. And it was hard, but we got out the back of it.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That must’ve been a pretty hard time for that eight month period that you did that must have taken a pretty big toll on you being the lowest paid. You’re the owner being the lowest paid, must have taken a pretty big toll on you hey?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And that didn’t do the best things for your self-worth and your self-confidence getting paid less than the first year apprentices getting paid less than the first year apprentice as a business owner. So that was, I guess is why that continued to spiral also. Until I was out of that hole, I couldn’t move forward. So that’s just what I had to do at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
What I really love about your story, Ben, is that I remember when we first met back in 2018 when we had our first strategy call together, and I knew that times weren’t great for you and it took a lot of courage to be able to put your hand up at that time to be able to ask for help. You’d tried a lot of things and they hadn’t worked and maybe there was a big hill for you to be able to climb in front of you. And it’s hats off to you mate for you putting your pride aside to be able to go, I need help to be able to work through this. It’s tough for a lot of blokes in the trades and construction space when they are faced with challenges, whether it be cashflow challenges, time challenges, team family problems and all those types of things to put their pride and put their ego aside and show a little bit of vulnerability and ask for help. And so hats off to you back then, mate, because gee, if you hadn’t have asked for help it, it would’ve come to a pretty big halt or a screaming halt at some stage, wouldn’t it?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, if I didn’t reach out for help when I did, I would’ve just continued on the spiral I was on and everything would’ve just eroded around me. So it was either step in and do something then or that was going to be it. So I’m very, very grateful that I swallowed a bit of pride and put my hand up around then.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Good on you, mate. I’m proud of you.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think, mate, you did more than that. You’re almost selling yourself short. I mean, the story we’ve told so far is you getting into a hole and basically getting out of it, but you didn’t just stop at the basis where you said, right, I want to get out of this pain that I’m in. I want to get myself to a point that I can feel better. You committed to going beyond that. It wasn’t just enough to sort of get something back that you’d lost or get to a certain level of comfort. You went beyond that and built a business that was going to thrive. You built a person and an identity that was going to thrive, and we saw that later on in the journey. But when we turned to that business side of things, do you want to talk a little bit around what were some of the other strategic plays you made? Obviously clearing out all the debt, how you went about that, facing it every week is probably a starting point, but it’s important to know that you didn’t settle and we’re using terminology at Pravar we use all the time, but I think it’s a really important part of the story that you didn’t settle for. Just getting back to zero, you went far beyond that, which is great.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, so that was obviously many, many, many layers and I’ve learned a lot in my six years of coaching. But another couple of the key strategic plays were my cost base. So pulling apart my cost base to work out what things actually cost. So my labour materials margin because I was just quoting everything incorrectly back then. I could go on for another hour on the list of things that I was doing wrong back then, but that was ultimately the foundation of how we got into that situation. So I really wanted to dig in, pull that apart and rebuild it from the ground up because obviously that was going to be the foundation for us to move forward into where we wanted to go and not just get back to zero, but take some leaps and bounds forward is the whole reason, I mean business to be successful, not just break even.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We see this a lot in coaching where as a business owner grows their business, they carry their pricing model through from when they often start, and this is one of the big areas that they get caught. What damage do you think that did create for you where you were pricing from things incorrect from the start? How do you think that contributed to the position you did get yourself into?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It was just almost setting myself up for failure. So even though you were doing the right, well, you felt like you were doing the right things on the ground at the start, the job wasn’t priced correctly. So no matter what happened from day one on site, you’re always backwards. So it wasn’t until I understood what my base costs were, how long it took to do A, B, C, and then that started to flow through into our jobs and we started to have jobs that were profitable. I didn’t understand any of that when I started. It was just looking at a set of plans and I think that’s about a week there, that’s about five days over there and I think it’s about $2 grand in materials. That’s how I’d quote. And it was probably $5 grand in materials and it was probably a month of labour. And if you got every job that you’re on running in that way, you’d never know where you’re at at any given time.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, correct. And we spoke around that in a previous episode around a lot of business owners have the mindset that making more money will fix my money problems. One of the strategies to counteract that is to fix your pricing model. So Ben, you going on that journey and fixing your pricing model, how did that help you really turn your corner to be able to set yourself up for success at the start of the job before you mistepped foot on site?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Well, it just created clarity, not just for me but for the guys on site. So they also knew what was in the job, what was allowed for how many hours, how many drums of cable, whatever it was. It wasn’t a case of here you go, go and start, go and start this job. Let me know when you’re finished. There’s clear expectations from the start that I give to the guys that sets them up for success on the job as well. So it starts all the way back at the estimating level, breaking it down into the different sections, being really clear on the scope and then having that backed up with the delivery. So that has given me the confidence, I guess, to win more of these jobs and tender some larger jobs and increase our revenue. I know that our pricing structure is correct. If I was continuing on the path that I was on winning more work and higher dollar value projects with my old pricing model, the hole would’ve just gone deeper faster.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Absolutely, absolutely. You mentioned Ben, the leadership team and how you communicate with them. What role did your structure play in this sort of recovery and getting into this place of thriving, if you want to call it that, or moving forward, what did you actually do and what levers did you pull when it came to structure?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, to start with, I had a part-time admin, so I increased that to full-time. So that brought back my 20 hours of office time that I was doing at nights and on the weekends, which allowed me to then be a bit more focused at work. So that was one of the first key levers. And then I had some underperforming tradesmen at the time, so I moved some of those guys on and replaced them with some guys who were a little bit more independent and skilled. So that in turn also helped reduce my 60 hours plus in the tools down to 50. So I was slowly just leveraging more of my time off more and better people. So that was a big focus.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And during this time that was a pretty slow and steady type of things because when you’ve got that much debt hanging, we say this in coaching a lot, when you’ve got that much debt hanging over your shoulder, it’s very hard to grow rapidly whilst you’re trying to pay debt off at the same time. So Ben, it was almost a slow and steady process during this time where every hour you could claw back, get a bit off the tools, leverage admin a bit more off the tools, leverage a bit more admin. Did you want to talk through how long it took you to be able to really leverage that admin and get off the top tools fully?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
The transition took about maybe 12 to 18 months to get completely off the tools. So getting the admin onboard and set up, that took a bit of time and then where it dropped me down to about 50/50 needing to help out with the office sort of stuff. And then eventually she got pretty well all across it and that was all covered. And then same again, once they got the new trades and it was just like a slow and steady making sure that they’ve been onboarded properly and they know what’s expected of them as well. So yeah, it was about 12 to 18 months roughly.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And 18 months sounds long, but 18 months is actually, that’s a short amount of time for you to go from doing 70 to 80 hour weeks down to 50 hours a week. So you went from 80 down to about 50. You went from working nights and weekends to trimming a lot of that out. Plus from going full-time on the tools to full-time off the tools, that’s a big shift in 12 to 18 months. And what did that do for your you personally and what did that do for your confidence? What did that give you to be able to get that time back and to be able to be off the tools at the same time?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I felt relieved in a sense. You could feel like, I guess the shackle was releasing slow. I didn’t feel like there was still pressure, but it was getting easier and easier to get through the days and weeks because I had that help. It wasn’t all on my shoulders. So yeah, I think it was just the small little things that were starting to come off my plate one by one, which sort of spiralled and we gained momentum and then just kept speeding up from there.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
We see that a lot in coaching where getting admin on board and getting off the tools is a real milestone for a lot of trades business owners, whether you’re working your way out of your debts or not, that’s a real milestone because you can finally go, I can breathe. I’ve now got time to actually manage this business rather than being on the tools, doing admin at night and all those types of things. And so that must’ve been a real milestone for you in your journey where you could just go, now I can do it and now I can almost move forward. It must’ve been a real milestone yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, it was and it felt good. And around that same time we moved out of our home office into, it’s just a small warehouse and office space, so we just leased that and it was good to have that separation from home. So when you went home, you were at home, you weren’t walking past rolls of cable in the hallway and walking past your office desk off to the side there. It was good to have that separation. So that all sort of happened at the same time, which that was a wait off in itself because you can be home and feel like you were home, not just in a different workspace.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
How did that feel putting your first sign up above the office door? What was that like for the first time to be able to hang that sign and go, actually I’ve got somewhere to turn up to every day. What was that like for you?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
It was pretty cool. I’ve still got that sign up in our mezzanine. It’s all old and tatted, but it’s just sitting up there as a bit of a memory. But it was good to stand back and look at that and as a bit of a proud moment for me to see everything that I was doing was coming to fruition and I was making some progress.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And you’ve now moved out of that original move has now grown into something else.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, now we’ve purchased our own warehouse now, and I’ve always, even back then when I was in a hole, I thought it would be so cool one day to own our own warehouse. And when I do, I’m going to get the biggest pool, like our pool logo on the side of the building and I’m going to stand back and look at it and be proud. And I did that. So when we moved in here, I think the diameter is like two metres. I’ve got a photo of me standing next to it. So when that went up on the wall, I stood out in the carpark and just out on my own for about half an hour and we had a bit of a proud moment there. It was good.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I remember the time that Catherine sent me a photo, two photos side by side, and one of them was you asleep at your desk, your head down on, you’d fallen asleep at your desk, you were doing quotes one night and you’re in the little spare room of the house. And then the second one is when you just move into this current premises you bought and it’s this beautiful big office, all decked out, all signed, written and all those types of things. But I love that when I got that from Catherine, it was a real proud moment for us. It would’ve been a huge proud moment for you. But that image to me just burns in my brain, which just tells your story of where you’d come from to where you got to and the hard yards and the grind day in day out to be able to get there. I love that photo. It means a lot to me. Gee, it must mean a lot to you as well.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, it was awesome and it was cool to see as well. And I remember the day that she took that and we were, I don’t know, we both realised at the same time we’re making some progress, not like we’ve made it. Obviously there’s still loads that we want to do, but we just had that bit of a moment where we looked at each other, it was like a bit of a relief. There’s some progress and we’re starting to see some success, which is cool. And I kept one of my old work shirts, so back when I was really in the thick of it, I had one of my old work shirts and I put it in a cupboard and I said to myself back then, once I’m through all this and I’ve got my own office one day, I’m going to hang that up on the wall as a bit of a reminder of this is where you came from. And when we moved into here, we got that framed and that hangs up on my office wall now as a bit of a reminder. And I get people come in and we have meetings all the time and they look up and go, why have you got an old tattered tradie shirt in the frame? Usually people have got wallabies jerseys or something like that and you sort of explain it to them and they’re like, oh wow, that’s pretty special.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
It is. It’s awesome. I love that. I’ve seen all of those photos. We might even, if it’s okay with you, put some up in the Trade Den for guys to see what we’re talking about because they are powerful images and that thing with the frame Tradie shirt is just such, it’s such a cool thing to do for so many reasons. So it’s great every time we see that and we see it regularly on calls, but when we do it, it’s always awesome. So really good stuff, mate. Let’s talk about current. What does the business now look like? Take us to current day and what the business looks like now.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, sure. So now we’ve, we’ve got a full management structure in place now. So we’ve got full-time admin, full-time accounts, full-time estimator, full-time PM, we’re moving one of our senior techs into a 50/50 supervisor role. And my day-to-day is just sales and sales and BD and having management meetings with the key staff and just I guess working on the things that matter and moving forward with our business instead of just being caught up in all the day-to-day stuff where our run rate’s $3 million at the moment and we’re forecasting to sort of hit the $5 million mark by Christmas this year. So I feel like everything’s in place at the moment to help us get to that next stage.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Amazing. Could you ever have envisaged that or was that part of your plan to get to this point or was it something it was just too big to consider when you were back there? It was just one step at a time.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
When I was back there, I couldn’t see further than a week in front of me. So if someone was to tap me on the shoulder back then and say, this is where you’re going to be in 3 or 4 years time, I would’ve just laughed and just told them that they were dreaming. So it’s pretty surreal to look back and see where we’ve come from and where we are now. And also the potential from where we can go now that we’ve got that management structure in place and we’ve got all the right people in the right seats. It’s exciting to see what can come.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Absolutely. What about, there’s something we didn’t touch on and I’m keen to get your take on it. How did you change as a leader through this whole journey and what do you think your leadership style has grown into now?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I’m still evolving as a leader, so as my business continues to grow, I need to continue to grow with it. So through each stage I’ve had to continue doing work on myself. I’ve got a mindset, mindset sort of coach that’s helping me out with inner beliefs and leadership and balancing empathy and accountability so you’re not too empathetic or you’re not too accountable. So you’re trying to keep that level playing field so you can be a good leader. But as we continue to grow, that’s just something I need to keep building on and working on to improve because the leader that I am now needs to level up for the leader that needs to run a $5 plus million dollar trades business. So that’s just something that I need to constantly just keep working on and improving.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
That’s great. That’s never settling in action. That answer right there. I love it. What about personal life? Where does that see you now? We talked about Jack’s just turned one, your son. So what’s personal life look like for you now?
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Personal life’s great. We just had our second year wedding. Second year we just had our two year wedding anniversary, which every year we go up to Toowoomba where we got married and we can walk around the grounds of the venue. So it’s sort of a reminisce, you can take it all in again. Obviously you’ve got 1-year-old, 1-year-old. Jack and I get home every day at 3:30, switch off. It’s very rare that I’m doing any work when I’m at home now. If I am, it’s sort of by choice if there’s something that I’m passionate about working on, but in most cases I just can’t wait to get home, see my family, hang out with Catherine, hang out with Jack, go little day trips on the weekends, just enjoy life because there’s more to life than just working.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
For sure. I love it. We’ve talked a bit about coaching and you just mentioned having a mindset coach. What about coaching in terms of one-on-one coaching? I know you love that. What is it about one-on-one coaching you think that you like the most? What’s your favourite aspect?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I think it’s just the different perspective and obviously the background and experience of the one-on-one coach. So I’ve learned when I was back working for someone else and I was an apprentice, I was learning from a tradesman who had learned all the skills that they needed to be a good tradesman and I was the up and comer in learning that it’s the same in business. I’m learning while doing, but also need to have someone who has that experience and background to help guide me on the right path. So that just having that perspective from the one-on-one coach and also someone to bounce ideas off is the sort of conversations you have with your one-on-one coach that you can’t really have with your team or your family. So yeah, I think it’s just rewarding on all facets I guess.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
While we’re there, mate, what about the Pravar community? You’ve been a part of it for a long time and a big part of it. What would you say about that?
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Love the community. There’s so much to be learned from the guys in the group because all on different paths and different journeys and just being surrounded with all those guys who’ve say they’ve been through a certain challenge that you might be working on right now so they can help shorten your curve, bouncing ideas off them as well, seeing their growth and their progression and their success. It sort of pumps you up and you want to move along with them and you, what’s the old saying? You become who you surround yourself with. So being in amongst those guys, it’s just awesome. And I feel like you really level up being a part of the community.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
For sure. Six years, a long time. What’s your favourite memory or have you got a favourite memory from your time in Pravar?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I’d have to be cloud nine of Fiji. That was pretty special and right at the end there where everyone sort of chanted and got everyone to jump in the water. Yeah, I’ll never forget that. That was cool.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, that cloud nine experience, that whole trip was pretty special and I think anyone that was there would have definitely have that in their probably top three moments of Pravar for anyone that’s been there for any stretch of time. Ben, as we wrap up, I think listening to you today and hearing this story and really focusing in on what we have, it’s become pretty apparent on how you pulled off that we call it a trick. It wasn’t a trick by any stretch, it was a lot of hard work, but that trick of getting into a hole because you lack something and being able to dig your way out with the things you didn’t have, which got you in there in the first place. And for me, I think the thing I’ve learned is grit. That idea of grit, which is passion and perseverance. I think the commitment you’ve showed and the perseverance you’ve had to stick this out and really never settle and make shit happen has been just extraordinary.
(40:50):
I know a lot of the guys in the group get a lot out of it in terms of when they talk to you, that comes across in every interaction mate, and I think for that amount of grit that you’ve shown, it’s got you a hell of a long way. And as you said, there’s still places to go and with that sort of approach and the way you’ve looked at it and taken it on so far, I think the sky’s the limit. So thanks for coming on today, Rob. I’m going to let you say a few words. You’ve been intimately involved in Ben’s coaching journey from day dot. What have you got to say?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, I think I would add on top of grit was just sheer determination to not roll over and to build the life, the business and life that I think deep down Ben always knew that he was capable of doing. And when I look back of Ben’s journey just on under six years, the first three years was literally just grinding out to get to square one. And Ben could have easily gone, that’s enough for me, I’m just going to coast from here on in. But it was first face, the facts never settled to get out of the hole and then it was never settled to be able to get to where he is today and where he is going in the future. And I still remember that time where you paid all your debts, you had your management team around you, and that was a real monumentous moment for you to be able to turn the corner and start going on the direction you are today. And so from all of us as a coaching team, we could be prouder of you mate. It’s been an epic journey over the last few years that you’ve been on here, but for me it just comes down to determination and a will and a want to really succeed no matter what’s stacked up against you. So thanks for coming and sharing your story today, mate. It’s an epic journey. We’re super proud of you and yeah, we can’t wait to see where you’re going over the next little while. It’s going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Thanks mate. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to the next chapter. It’s only onwards and upwards from here.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, good stuff. If you’ve been listening here today and you’ve enjoyed today’s story, we would love to hear what you’ve taken away from Ben’s story. We keep bringing you stories of clients to be able to inspire you as to what is possible. There’s a saying that we use a lot in coaching that success leaves clues and also when you’re in business, you don’t know what’s possible until you see it in your peers around you. And you can use that as inspiration to be able to either get you out of a hole or inspiration to take your business and life to a whole nother level. And so hopefully you’ve enjoyed today’s story, we’ve loved it, and there’s so much good things that have come out of today’s story. Looking forward to hearing your take on it and always please hit that follow button and share it with one of your mates who might be going through a bit of a challenging time at the moment and might be able to get some inspiration from Ben’s story to be able to give them a bit of courage and a bit of hope to be able to keep pushing forward, to be able to build out the business and life that they’ve always dreamed of Looking forward to coming back to you next week at the Trade Den, and look forward to talking to you soon. Thanks heaps.