Episode 20 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

I can’t grow because that means more work. I can’t physically do any more work. The enjoyment went out the window as well because I was just working so hard for so long and yeah, I was just trapped to my business.

Speaker 2 (00:15):

Hi everyone. Rob Kropp here and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den podcast. Looking forward to today’s episode. Dan, great to have you back.

Speaker 3 (00:24):

Hi, Rob. Great to be back. Feeling good, feeling excited. Looking forward to another client feature session, some of our favourite things to do on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:32):

Yeah, I’m looking forward to today. Today’s episode 20 bit of a milestone for us to be able to hit over to episode 20, but today we’ve got a really great client feature story from Phil Dawes from The Great Outdoors based in Adelaide. So big warm, welcome to you, Phil. Great to have you on today’s today’s episode.

Speaker 1 (00:54):

Thanks for having me on, guys.

Speaker 3 (00:56):

Pleasure, Phil. Great to have you on. You’re a guy that’s been around coaching for a little while with us now. Rob and I are both very excited for today. We both coached you for a fair amount of time and are looking forward to sharing what’s been an awesome story. How are you feeling about joining us on the podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:13):

I’ve been good, good to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:15):

Excellent, excellent. All right, well let’s kick in and let’s start it off. Let’s get everyone to meet you and just to get to know a little bit about you. So why don’t you give us your business, a little bit of background about the size of the business and tell us a bit about you.

Speaker 1 (01:28):

Yeah, so obviously Phil do the director of the Great Outdoors Landscaping in Adelaide. We’ve been trading for 10 years now and have 17 people working for us, so it keeps us busy.

Speaker 3 (01:44):

Excellent. How many is that split? Have you got a split between ground crew and office crew off the top of your head?

Speaker 1 (01:49):

Yeah, 13. 13 on the ground including a supervisor and then three to four in the office, including myself.

Speaker 3 (01:55):

Fantastic. And starting with Pravar Group, I think it was just before COVID, do you remember when that was?

Speaker 1 (02:02):

Yeah, 2020. So four odd years now, so it’s been good.

Speaker 3 (02:07):

Fantastic. All right. I think we’re going to talk about this a little bit because it’s a big part of your journey, but at the moment, how many hours on average you work in a week?

Speaker 1 (02:15):

I’d say 40.

Speaker 3 (02:15):

Music to my ears to hear you say that and that’ll become apparent for you listening as we go through Phil’s story, so excellent. Thank you for that. Alright, so let’s kick off. I’m going to take you back to the start. Let’s get into this journey and let’s take you back. Can you remember, I’m going to jump right into this, probably the challenge that you were trying to face back in those days just before in 2020 when you came to us, what was the challenge you were staring at and ringing your hands over at that time?

Speaker 1 (02:46):

Yeah, I guess the challenge for me was I was doing really big hours. I was doing everything and it was kind of I guess losing my enthusiasm for what I did and I was a little bit trapped, you could say.

Speaker 3 (03:02):

Okay, and where was that trap for you specifically? Can you remember what it was? That sort of sense of what do I do or what were you trying to understand?

Speaker 1 (03:12):

I guess the trap was, well for me, I really didn’t know where to go from where I was. I built this business on, had a really good name, we were doing really good work, but the bigger we got, the more I was doing and all trying to do and it just meant that I was doing really big days and was trapped to do those days.

Speaker 3 (03:38):

Do you think that, where was your mind in terms of, you talked about growing at the time, do you know where your mind was at in terms of growing and bringing people on and what that might mean or were you just trying to hold onto everything?

Speaker 1 (03:50):

Well, I was definitely holding on to everything what I built up, but there was a fear around growing because I associated growth with more work for me. What history told me prior to that point was I was, the more staff I had, the more I had to be across, the more I had to invoice, the more I had to quote, the more just everything I had to do. And so I associated I guess growth with more time and at that point I was doing a hundred hour week, so there was no more time to give. So I guess I was just stuck in that going, I can’t grow because that means more work. I can’t physically do any work. So it was just this real I guess point where I was a little bit lost, not lost. I guess the enjoyment went out the window as well because I was just working so hard for so long and yeah, I was just trapped to my business.

Speaker 3 (04:46):

All right. I’m going to ask a question here just to double check. This is the scenario. We hear a lot of that exactly what you’ve laid out. Where were you at in terms of the prospect of letting go as opposed to being the guy? You said you built up that sort of reputation. Where was your head at in terms of having to contemplate letting go a bit in the business?

Speaker 1 (05:06):

Yeah, I guess I definitely had the mindset back then of I had to do it all. I had the mindset that I just had to be, I was across everything so much that other people didn’t know I had to be the one that did it and no one can do it better than you. Cliche. I struggled to probably let go of tasks early because I was like, well, doing a hundred hour weeks, I’m on the tools I’m quoting at nighttime even. We’re just making a wage, an okay wage, but how am I going to have someone else come in and be on the tools replacing me and still make a profit and how was that going to work? I was really fearful That wasn’t, to some extent you are the trader, you’re the guy that’s good with his hands and if I’m not there on building these gardens, how the fear was that that wasn’t even an option to have someone else come in and sort of take control and free me up and that would still mean a stable income. I was very much wired that I had to be on the ground to make the money, but that was then not now.

Speaker 3 (06:25):

Yeah. Rob, this is classic entry point for a lot of guys we talk to, isn’t it that sort of mindset. Phil called it a cliche, but I think it’s more than that. I think it’s a factor or a place where a lot of guys get to.

Speaker 2 (06:39):

Yeah, it is. It’s one of those things that a trades business owner will always get to a point in their journey where they reach a certain point from working longer and harder and grinding it out day in, day out to be able to get to that point. And I think that what got them to there is not what’s going to get them to the next level, which is what we’re going to absolutely talk about today in Phil’s journey, but it’s that classic mindset of no one’s as good as me, it saves me time and energy and money if I do it myself. And that often gets ’em to a certain point, but that’s also what shows up in long days, long nights, struggling to relinquish control and be able to let go. And so for you Phil, how did that mindset contribute to the position you got yourself in, do you think?

Speaker 1 (07:26):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I was definitely telling myself for a long time that progression, that growth wasn’t an option and it’s something I still reflect on now going, how silly was that thought that I had back then? Because being off the tools now and seeing the results we’re getting now is well surpassed where we were. So I guess it was a hundred percent it clouded my growth, it clouded the progression of the business and I guess the belief I had is incorrect. It sort of froze me for a while where we had a couple of three or four years, you almost say we plateau and doing a hundred hours and in that stress and being just tired of fighting all that, I guess it got to that point where something had to change and yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:25):

What was your revenue at that point and how many people did you have on the ground around you?

Speaker 1 (08:30):

Yeah, rev was just under a mill and I would say we would’ve had about five to six guys on the ground across two sites.

Speaker 3 (08:40):

So that fear that’s ramping up at that time, something’s got to give, right? You’ve got a business that needs to continue to move and grow. You’ve got this mindset that’s saying, Hey, it’s got to be me because I’m the guy that got it to here, so I’ve got to keep doing that. If I grow, it’s going to mean more hours. So I think if you look at this, would you say did, and I’m keen to understand, did you choose to tackle this or did you feel like it was being sort of forced upon you that you just had to make a shift?

Speaker 1 (09:10):

I would say for me it was a turning point that I had to decide to do one of two things. Well, that’s definitely where my mind was. One was get smaller and be more organised and I could see myself doing less hours because I was smaller and I thought that was a serious option at the time. And then the other option was to face the facts, I guess, and get some guidance and help to actually at the time it was very much what have we got to lose? It can’t be, not so much any worse than this, but I couldn’t do any more hours than I was doing and my enjoyment had gone out the window a little bit, and so something had to happen. And I remember thinking that if I got smaller, that meant me on the tools and for life and being a landscape which is quite hard on your body, I knew that that probably wasn’t going to be a long-term option realistically. And so that was effectively a bad, I guess part of my decision was that was probably a bad decision and so I guess I chose the other option because it really was the only long-term option and it got to the point where it’s like, what have I got to lose to try it?

Speaker 3 (10:27):

You talked about working a hundred hour weeks and doing big hours. I’m sure people listening and for certain people listening, it’s going to be, yeah, I do big hours too, but throwing around a hundred hours is no light thing. And I know from coaching you that you were doing those sort of hours. Can you just describe what a hundred hour week really involved for you at the time? If you can put yourself back in that place, just sort of walk through what a week was like at a hundred hour a week level?

Speaker 1 (10:56):

Yeah, sure. Well, yeah, a normal week for me, which went on for years way too long, but it was probably get up around 5:30, get to work around 6:00, well get on the way to work around 6:30, be at a trade store, pick up the tools for the day, pick up the materials, et cetera, start work 7:00, 7:30, work till 5:00 on the tools, and then depending which part of the life you look at, it would be probably stopping at a client’s house or prospective client’s house on the way home at 5:30 to see a new job, go home, get home around 6:00, sometimes 5:30, 6 o’clock, something like that. Probably. We’ve got two kids at the time. We’ve got four now, but we had two, so it was probably that 5:30-6:00 to about 7:30 before it was probably an hour, an hour and a half window where I saw the kids had tea, showers, bed, and then 7:45 back at the home desk just quoting the client that I just saw and probably didn’t go to, probably average, went to bed around half past 12. It’s one o’clock.

Speaker 3 (12:08):

All right, so we get to tea time, it’s an hour and a half with the kids and then the night session kicks in. Is that what happens next?

Speaker 1 (12:17):

Yeah, that’s right. I mean as soon as the kids were in bed, typically I went back to the office at home and would begin quoting, invoicing, admin, any of that sort of stuff at mostly quoting at this time. And that would probably average would be midnight. I’d be there till midnight. Some nights it would’ve been two or three, just driven to get this quote out the door so that it was done. And another nights, it might’ve been 11, but very rarely was I in bed before 11, so we were at midnight.

Speaker 3 (12:52):

And this is, I’m assuming weekends weren’t just, I’ll put my feet up now that I’ve hit that sort of Friday night.

Speaker 1 (12:58):

No, weekends were a little bit different, but typically Saturday was a work day, I think at the time I began coaching, I was no longer working on the tools Saturday, but it was very much at home, but probably depending on the week really, but anywhere between six to eight hours at home. But quoting sort of a three hour block here, a three hour block there gathering materials, and then Sunday, again, probably three to five hours depending what we were doing as a family and just how urgent the work was to get out the door.

Speaker 3 (13:37):

So talk us through then, obviously so that we’ve got the work scenario, it’s just full tilt, it’s you, it’s wearing so many hats. What was the, what’s happening with family and health over this period of just absolute redlining week after week after week?

Speaker 1 (13:52):

Yeah, I guess family was at that point, to be honest, coming second, I had a very supportive wife that never complained about this, but our weekends was very much dictated with how busy I was. We wouldn’t go places or no, we just wouldn’t. Kelly would never book anything with the family because it depends if I was busy or not. And so the kids were only young at that stage. So I guess at that point it wasn’t a huge issue, but I think in reflection it was certainly less than ideal. I was probably definitely not present and I was home and I was always wired that there was work to be done. And so yeah, it wasn’t ideal, but there wasn’t any problems that were on the surface I would say relationship wise or anything like that. I’m glad I caught it when I did.

Speaker 3 (14:53):

And I think that contrasting the fear that’s in the background, I remember where we started with the fear of, oh, do I grow? Do I shrink? What’s going to happen? Lumping that on, I think where the family was and what you could see as part of what was going into this choice, you knew you had to make, it wasn’t going to be good either way. It wasn’t going to be sustainable at that level if it stayed that way. What did health look like for you in that point? Surely you’re getting tired burnout or something’s giving in the health area too, I’d suspect.

Speaker 1 (15:20):

Yeah, health was not great, would rarely have a lunch break and I would have lunch, but it would be typically at the macas drive-through or something quick and easy and unhealthy. And I would very rarely pack my lunch in the mornings because I’ve only been in bed probably four to five hours max. And so it was just, I’m going to buy it. It’s easy, it’s quick, and it was always an unhealthy option. And so health was probably at an all time low, overweight for sure and just didn’t like what I looked like and appearance and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, it wasn’t great.

Speaker 3 (16:04):

Yeah, it’s pretty tough. I mean this choice that you talked about before, the choice of grow or shrink, I think it was more than that. And I keen to hear your thoughts on this and Rob jump in as you need to, but I think the choice really became down to, well, what’s this next step going to look like? Am I going to share a fulfilling life with my family and start to build this life that I really want this lifestyle or am I just going to dedicate my life to the family in terms of, well, I have to suck it up, I have to sacrifice, I have to just, this is the world that it’s going to be no matter which way I jump. So for me, it’s sort of like that choice between sharing or dedicating your life in a certain way. It’s a much bigger conversation when you take into consideration health and family and the business itself.

Speaker 2 (16:50):

Yeah, it is. We see a lot of guys at this space, at the million dollar mark, a couple of guys in around them working crazy hours. They are riddled with fear in coaching, we call it no man’s land. You’re too big to be small, too small to be big, and you are, you’re faced with this fork in the road moment, do I shrink back and have one or two guys and go back to making an easier life? But the downside of that is no structure, no leverage. You’ve got a very highly risky self-employed job. That’s what you’ve got or do you take that next step? But that next step comes with a lot of fear of the unknown. It’s letting go. It’s relinquishing control, it’s building team. And that’s often hard. It’s often a hard choice to make when you are working a hundred hours a week and you are working for wages. It’s like how do I get to the next level when I’m already just purely redlining at the moment? And so it’s a real tough point to make. And I remember the early conversations we had Phil, where I was like, mate, you got to take things to the next level. You can’t stay where you are. And you pushed back for so long you were resisting. And I think looking back now, that’s purely because you were just so riddled with fear and exhaustion and pure burnout in that moment, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (18:10):

Yeah, that’s right. I certainly was. I was at a tipping point with something we had to change and I was nervous, scared about I guess some of those moves because it was unknown. We were working for wages and it was like, well, this has to work. It was daunting, I’d never done it before. It seems to be some pretty big steps. A part of it was me letting go, which I wasn’t good at the start. And yeah, there was just all this unknown area which without assistance, it would’ve just been something that I wouldn’t have been able to navigate through and I probably wouldn’t have taken any steps to be truthful, not as many or taken years and years longer to do it.

Speaker 3 (19:02):

Yeah, and I think that’s natural. I think that’s that second fear. Once you have that fear of what happens if I let go and then you move into, well, I don’t know what’s going to happen next. That fear of uncertainty, that fear of not knowing how to fix it because if you really examine it, your only choice is that time you only had the choice of two things, which isn’t really a choice. We’d call that a dilemma, but it was I either shrink or I grow. Either way, the outcome wasn’t going to be pleasant as you understood it at the time. So the two things I’ve got that could fix it aren’t really going to fix the underlying issue, which is the family and the health and that fulfilling life that you ultimately wanted. How did you tackle moving out of that space then? So you’re absolutely paralysed. You used that word before, but how do you break through that paralysing moment and actually go right, I’m going to take those first couple of steps.

Speaker 1 (19:53):

I guess for me it was joining coaching and using you guys to help me through that. I mean, I had to make some plays that I wasn’t confident in, and that was the first steps. My journey here were really massaging through the basics of setting all that in place and I guess allowing myself to let others in and do roles for me. And even if it wasn’t as good as I was and me taking a completely different role and just sort of just massaging through it, but I had to face to face, something had to change and I needed to push forward with the steps required deal one by one.

Speaker 3 (20:41):

And you said about those things that you weren’t confident in, what was, I mean now we’re layering more fear on top of this, right? As we go into the fear of the unknown, you’re now confronting those things that I’m not good at, which is probably going to provide less certainty around what’s going to happen next. What were some of those initial things that came up for you in coaching where you had to face the facts there and confront that next level of operating the business?

Speaker 1 (21:05):

Yeah, I mean it was heaps. I mean, it was handing the accounts and bookkeeping to a person that wasn’t my wife or myself. It was promoting one of my guys to supervisor so I didn’t have to be on site daily or as much. And eventually now getting an estimator and sitting with them for a period of probably six months to gain confidence that they can price on your behalf and putting all those people around me that were doing some of the things that I was doing. So that meant that I was doing less and they were probably the main ones.

Speaker 3 (21:45):

And I know one of the things was that you had to start to also face that facts around not knowing your numbers and starting to sink time into that as well.

Speaker 1 (21:54):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I didn’t know my numbers at all. Well, very little back when I started coaching. And I think that’s what paralysed me to actually move forward too, is that because I didn’t know what they were, I was always I guess operating with this thing that everything had to be go, go, go, go, go because we’re working for wages and we can’t afford to have a mistake and I’ll do it all and all this sorts of stuff. So as we moved and grew through coaching, we got more and more awareness around training numbers, and I guess that gave me a sense of confidence that one support that we can make these moves. You are making enough money to do these moves and this is how you treat that move. And then my role become more and more and more around having some time to look at numbers more and know what they were and what they meant and then chase different avenues to gain the better results.

Speaker 3 (22:52):

Did that in itself solve this problem? And by problem, I mean is the hours you’re working and this absolute stalemate of there is no more, how did all of that feed into what it was? What was the problems that you were still experiencing maybe at home or where was that going at that time?

Speaker 1 (23:12):

Yeah, I think for a long time, I mean we’re talking a four year period here, but probably for the first two, there’s so much work to be done. So me being me put a few steps in place and trying to perfect everything. I think I was just keeping myself as busy as ever with hours and I wasn’t actually getting the benefit from some of the stuff I’ve started to do. So I guess you could say I was holding on still too much for the being too perfect and trying to manage everything, even though I should have been going the other way where I was doing more delegation and putting a few basic systems in place to actually go, no, that’s not my role. And so yeah, come to a point, come to a point where we just decided that a couple months time you would remember this quite clearly, Dan, that we weren’t going to do at that point 85, 90 hours anymore.

(24:09):

We were going to do 40 and we were going to commit to the family to pick them up with the kids up from school four nights of the week and we’re going to do a nine day fortnight. And so we dived head first to that as one of our major challenges I guess, and then dealt with anything that come up to do that because halving your hours overnight essentially. And that again provided a lot of challenge for a long time to actually sit to learn to say no to more work because you’re no longer at work as often and delegate more and just had to learn that my role was 40 hours a day, which was very foreign to me at the start. I’d go to work at depend, but 5, 6, 7 o’clock in the morning, but be on my way home to get the kids at two.

(25:01):

This was half a day for me. I’ve been running 90, 80, a hundred hours for 10 years in the lead up to starting the business to try and get it off the ground. And then when we started, we’ve gone full tilt. So it was a big adjustment and something that took me a long time to actually perfect and be content that that’s okay. I think 40 hours a week for a businessman is okay, and I think you hold on, you’re a businessman. You’ve got to do a hundred hours, 60 hours, 70 hours, that’s normal deal with it. But I think it took me a long time to get that and just say that is okay, and I’ve just got to be really productive of my time.

Speaker 3 (25:44):

Yeah, I think so. And I do remember that conversation and I think what we were noticing just before in the lead up to that decision, you were talking in terms of you would give up profit. It wasn’t about growing the business for the sake of it at this time, that pressure from home started to build. You were, I think you’re up to three, just about four kids at the time. Again, that sustainability of what you’d done was always going to land you in a world of pain if it didn’t change. However, when you started to explore these things and learning your numbers and leaning into coaching, all you were doing was replacing one set of a hundred hours of activity with a different hundred hours of activity. So yes, the activities changed, but your approach to it, it was still the same approach. I will work through the night if I need to get this shit done.

Speaker 1 (26:31):

Yeah, I was very much a person that said, if you have your quote by tomorrow, you’ll get it by tomorrow. And I think that worked well and got me the results for a long time. Do what you say you’re going to do and just get it done. But we didn’t have kids. I probably wouldn’t have had that, I guess drive to step away from that model I guess, and probably would be still continuing to push the limits. And so I guess as we made these changes, there was two kids and they were young and then there wasn’t necessarily any issues, but really thankful that we made that decision when we did because now I’ve got four and they’ve got sport commitments and it’s a merry-go-round with them. I couldn’t do the life that I was doing two to four years ago now that I’ve got four kids and that would’ve created drama for sure. I wouldn’t have been there to support my wife, I wouldn’t have been there at all for the kids. They would’ve been going without sport. And so yeah, we just grabbed it at the right time and so thankful now that I actually did that work and I committed to that change put us in a much better place.

Speaker 2 (27:43):

What we’re talking about here is a big identity shift really at the deepest level. This is a huge identity shift and I think for you Phil, your identity of what made you great as a great tradesman was your quality of workmanship, your perfectionism, delivering amazing landscapes for your clients, that your work ethic, that’s what made you great as a tradesman, but the more we hear your story, you carried those traits through to trying to be a great business owner, but that’s where you became stuck. And we see this allotted time in coaching that when you make the step from getting off the tools to starting to build team, you have to make a big identity shift from going from being a really good tradesman to becoming a really good businessman. And some guys make that shift really quickly. But it sounds like for you, Phil, you were almost holding on back to that identity of filled the tradesmen and that’s what was showing up as the struggles to relinquish control, the struggle to delegate. Tell us more a bit about that internal battle you were finding of that identity shift that you were having at the time.

Speaker 1 (28:53):

Yeah, I think to be put simply, I think it was just me trying to hold on to being perfect. I was trying to get everything perfect, get it out on time, give us the best chance of winning work, do high quality work, and it just suffocated me. So I had to really change my mindset around 95% is good enough or 90% is good enough and just let it go. It took a huge long time. I’m still dealing with it today. It took a year to probably go from not doing it at all and not getting any benefit for that change to I’ve got to go, you guys will need to have a crack at this basically. And then sharpening the sword around that a little bit and giving rules and KPIs and stuff like that and systems. They don’t have so much room to swim in, but it was just what I had to do. I had to make the change and had to learn the new me.

Speaker 3 (30:01):

You did. And I think the one thing we did do, and I think this is a big part of your story, and for anyone overcoming fear, you can sit in that position and ruminate about, well, what am I going to do? How do I fix it? I don’t like the choices. And you just cycle through that and you don’t really get anywhere. The turning point for you, as I remember it, when we sat down and we started to say, right, we’re going to tackle this and we’re going to solve this thing, we knew what the outcome was, but the big thing we did was set the date. Remember we sort of said in advance, and I think it was like six months time or four months time, it was like, that’s going to be your first nine day fortnight. What did, just setting a realistic or probably wasn’t realistic to you at the time, it was for me, but what was it like setting a goal like that with a date? What did that sort of do to break you out for the person who if you are listening to this and you’re thinking, yeah, I want to know exactly what he did. I think the biggest thing, it wasn’t the steps. You sort of know what’s coming in terms of steps, but setting a date was a pivotal point, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (31:02):

I think it was two or three months. And I think it’s that moment you wanted it, you wanted it so bad, but there was so much unknown again between what has to happen to get there, setting the date became this is real. Then I told Kelly, my wife, and then I committed to picking up the kids and ultimately that’s what you’re doing it for. So when you make that commitment, you don’t want to go back on that. And so it just become real. I told the staff, I told, this is my new calendar, this is why told a lot of people about why I was doing it and this is what I do and these are the changes that I’ll need to make. And I got a lot of support in that. They probably, to be honest, they probably looked back going at it going about time, you made that decision, Phil, you can’t be working those hours and you should probably pick up your kids.

(31:56):

You know that. But for me, I think I was just too transfixed in business and I have to be busy and I have to be doing this. But yeah, it just got real. I told people, this is what I’m going to do now, and I had to tell clients which I wasn’t good at. I work seven to five on a Monday and I work seven to two every other day. I pick up the kids and then all of a sudden just telling everyone, this is what I do now. Clients weren’t going, oh, why can’t you meet after three or four o’clock on any day of the week? So I’ll get the kids. And then all, they weren’t hounding me over that commitment. If anything, all those problems went. And then the biggest thing was me just rocking up and getting it done and I did.

(32:44):

So for me, the date worked. I think we’d probably still be here swimming around 60 or 70 if the date didn’t work. And really, really thankful for that call with you, Dan, on that day I was just like, you bailed me up and said, when are we doing this mate? And that’s kind of what I needed. I needed someone just to set a date and make me set a date and then just, yeah, it was all about support to go and go and do it thereafter and we’ll work it out. We’ll do what it takes.

Speaker 2 (33:18):

And this is what happens when you go at business alone is you start to believe your own bullshit, your own fears, your own lies and your own stories. And that’s what happens. And Phil, you’re all up in your head and you are making changes, but this is the power of someone calling you out on it, someone holding you accountable, and then you speaking that your own truth to people around you, which then creates external accountability. So what did that external accountability do to you do for you on the family front when you told Kel and told the family, this is what I’m doing, how did that really sharpen you straight up?

Speaker 1 (33:58):

Yeah, I think to be honest, I mean I don’t asked, but I think when I told Kelly, she probably wouldn’t have believed it. But when I told because then what would you, when I started telling clients and team and it was almost that burden of like, oh, I’m going to be going home on 40 hour weeks earlier than you guys. But then the more people I told, it was almost the rehearsed story I was telling everyone, this is what I’m going to do. I guess the pressure to actually go and do it went away. And then when I started to do it over and over and over and over and over and I was home and I did pick up the kids, I think that was when the biggest window and benefit for me was actually seeing Kelly go out and do some stuff for herself for probably the first time she started to believe probably that I don’t do a hundred hours anymore because that’s just what I was, that’s what I did. And that was probably the biggest win out of all for me.

Speaker 2 (35:04):

Isn’t it amazing when you force change things around, you change and when you don’t drive change, life and business goes on as normal, but when you set that date, that deadline, it forced you to relinquish control, it forced you to delegate, it forced you to enable space for your team around you to step up. Isn’t it amazing that when you commit to making change, it forces you to make personal change as a leader? And it’s no doubt it was probably scary. It’s probably a bit of guilt involved where you were leaving home early and before your team and everything. But isn’t it amazing that when you do make that commitment to make change, it forces you to step up and do something about it, doesn’t it?

Speaker 1 (35:50):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, that was nail on the head. It wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t like that. And yeah, I don’t know how to really summarise it, but it was exactly that. Once you’ve transfixed on something, you told everyone what we were doing, it was easier. And then I look back now going, geez, I should have done it 8, 10, 20 years ago, but at the time I was caught up in it at all. And you’re not thinking clearly and you think you were doing okay, but realistically there’s so much better than an okay you could be doing. So yeah, it’s funny how even my mind on such a short window has changed. I look back and go, that was madness.

Speaker 3 (36:35):

It is. And I think what you did it, I want to just stress the point. It wasn’t like we just set a date and it hit that date and away it went. There was a hell of a lot of work. There was a hell of a lot of decisions that had to be made, thousands of decisions by you to say, am I going to stick to this commitment? Am I going to prioritise this commitment I’ve made to myself, but to the family, to my health, to the business, to the people that were in the business looking to grow and adapt and grow in their careers. So I think that commitment, that choice involved thousands of choices over that three, four months, whatever it was. So I think that was one thing. And I think the other thing important is that you went from a world where it was one or the other.

(37:16):

It was either I grow this thing or I shrink this thing, I have the family I want or I don’t, I’m going to probably put myself, to be fair to you in an early grave based on how hard I’m working, it was always an either or decision that you had. And I think what you learned over that time or the big swing that you had, and I’m keen to hear how you’ve reflected on it, is that you went from an either or to an end, how do I have a great business and a fulfilling family life? How do I go from having a really good business and a team of people that are empowered? You learn the power of trying to figure out and instead of trying to resolve or when both yours were probably not going to give you what you wanted anyway.

Speaker 1 (37:57):

No, that’s right. And I think that with this is it was either or and it now I’m along this path a little bit more. I certainly reflect back on and go, I was so close to not taking it. And I look at now going, I’m under half the hours, I was doing much better wage and profits. I’m with the kids more. It’s, its just I’ve never dream that this would be possible. So I think, yeah, a lot of my, I suppose growth over the last four weeks, four years has been around what are the problems that I have to fix? And I’ve been pushing towards ticking them off the list to actually create what I have now or still on the journey now, but what I’ve got now and what I’ve planned to get the next year as well.

Speaker 3 (38:55):

I want to get to that next chapter. But before we do, I’m not going to gloss over the whole punchline of this and the transformation because I really do want to come back to after four years of coaching and where the journey of overcoming fear from where we started, those three o’clock in the mornings when you’re sitting there going, holy shit, that way to uncover the end and develop it all, let’s just take stock and spend a minute going through this. So if I said to you, let’s start with family, we’ll go into the home and hours and those sort of things, but just give us a sense of where family’s at now for you.

Speaker 1 (39:28):

Yeah, I mean I’ve never spent more time with family than I do now. As I said to you before, I pick the kids up four times a week. It’s allowed Kelly to go back to work, which was her wish, which was great. So I’m home on those two days of the week, a little bit early in the week to actually be there so that Kelly can do that. And so yeah, there’s just a lot more time. I guess the biggest thing with the kids is I was there before but I wasn’t really there. I wasn’t present and now it’s like when I’m there, I’m dad, I’m not business dad. So it’s a lot more available to them and support if someone they would to ring me and now I’d leave to go home now and I could before they probably wouldn’t even make the phone call. They know the answer. It’s not like I would’ve said no, but they know it’s not an option, so they don’t even make the phone call. So a lot more available, a lot more present and weekends there is no such thing as work and it’s about enjoying what we have and it’s magic.

Speaker 3 (40:40):

That’s awesome. Goosebumps. When you said, I’m not business dad, I’m just dad now, that’s amazing. I dunno about you Rob, but that was absolute goosebumps when Phil said that. Phil, can you talk through one of the big things you did and you committed to this? I remember this moment vividly too, was talking through what you wanted to do in terms of where you wanted to live and can you talk through where you live now compared to where you used to and what you’ve been able to create on that front, having that focus now and balancing that out too.

Speaker 1 (41:09):

Yeah, sure. I grew up on a farm, so out of the city and always liked space and outdoor activities, motorbikes, camping, fishing, all that sort of stuff. But it was probably a visioneering 2022 maybe when we sit down with you guys and we map out what do we really want. And for me it was that hobby farm. I couldn’t live in the country anymore, not where work was, but I could move to the hills or somewhere with acreage and stuff. So I sort of got really clear on what that dream looked like. And then Kel and I were on the same page. We had to sell our house rent for a little bit, put money in the bank, go and source this property in which we found one and we’re on 35 acres in the Adelaide Hills. And yeah, just, I don’t know how to describe it.

(42:11):

I mean it’s the dream home on acreage. We’ve got cattle, we’ve got motorbikes. It’s kind of like the miniature version of what I had when I grew up, which I’ve been able been really cool to actually give back to my four kids now and get them active in that sort of place. So I guess it’s a great outlet to drive up the hill and just come down the driveway and go, that’s it. Business is back there and this is home life and this is what we do here. And it’s not that crosspollination between half office at home, half business at home. It’s just lifestyle and yeah, it’s really nice.

Speaker 3 (42:53):

I love it. I love it. And you left out your tractor too in that little list of toys. I know you love your tractor.

Speaker 1 (42:58):

There’s a few more toys than that. We won’t go into that.

Speaker 3 (43:01):

Yeah, it’s still on the don’t tell Rob list. All right. Last one I want to touch on in this, I’ve saved this up, but the next little element or a little pillar if you like that we’ll talk about is your health. I want to hear and can you summarise for the person listening, just tell us about the journey on health and what you’ve been able to create there as well just to round us out in terms of where you’ve got to by overcoming these fears and really having a crack at coaching the way you needed to do this.

Speaker 1 (43:31):

Yeah, well health, for as long as I can remember, I was always a bigger guy and I wasn’t a gym guy. And I guess I was at that mean at that point in my life where I was sort of telling me to myself that I was okay with it and I always had the friends I want, I had the wife, I want this and that, but it was probably two years ago now as well. And I was guess reflecting on what I actually thought about what I really looked like and as we had four kids that were getting quite active, I was puffing and puffing and it wasn’t what I pictured myself to be. I was 133 kilos was my peak. And it was at that point where something had to change and for me it was just getting a PT at that time of hours.

(44:36):

I didn’t want to affect the family, come home with four kids, you don’t want to be chucking on the runners and going for a 5km jog and being gone for another hour. So for me, I had to find what worked for me. And so what I committed to was getting started with the PT and I’d go three times or two times a week I think it was. And I needed that commitment with the PT to actually rock up. I didn’t like the gym so I needed that pressure from a PT to go get your ass in here. And then I started Lite n Easy. But for me I did it mornings and lunchtimes Monday to Friday. That’s how it started because for me, again, I treated eating well like business, I have to eat well Monday to Friday and then the weekend I get to let it all go, et cetera.

(45:25):

And long story short, I had little rules that I started off at and I said, fast forward now I’ve lost 26 kilos. I go to the gym three times a week or pretty close to, I don’t find it hard to go to the gym. I’ve fallen in love with how I feel afterwards. My most productive days are generally when I go to the gym in the mornings I enjoy the workout, but I enjoy how I feel afterwards. I feel a lot more alive and electric and switched on and alert and I’m continuing the lite needs. It’s easy, it just comes, it gets delivered and it’s in the fridge so there’s a bit more to it and that love just not snacking in between meals. I still have a normal tea and it’s still big. I still go to the barbecue and eat the house down. But for me it was just a few little rules and it just slowly come off and it wasn’t like a hard and fast diet that in my life reflected I’d do it for six months, get the results and drop off and do it and drop off. It was a sustainable approach. And yeah, it’s really enjoyable to be more active now and be fitted with the kids and just, I’m really enjoying that space with health and fitness now. No muscle machine, but I really enjoy the more active person I’ve become.

Speaker 3 (46:44):

Definitely. Can you remember that goal? You talk about it was little steps and little changes, which is what we coach you guys on, but can you remember those little steps and changes in terms of what your goal originally was each week that you’d hope to measure yourself on?

Speaker 1 (47:01):

Not really.

Speaker 3 (47:02):

You can’t remember it. Do you remember? I think you set a goal and I remember you telling me, it was like, I think I can do 300 grammes a week.

Speaker 1 (47:10):

I mean again, it was at visioneering and I was sort of working out how much I’d like to get to and I think it was 110 kilos at the time. And I mapped out if I’m going to do this, and I can’t remember the timeframe, but whatever it worked out, I did the calculations, I wrote down 270 grammes per week or whatever. It was over a stupid amount of weeks and it was all written down, every single measurement. I guess that’s sort of how I kept the track on it of at the time it was get the weight off and it was coming off and it was good. But when I got into it more and more it wasn’t, I probably wasn’t, I still aimed to get to the 110, but I was not as much chasing the 270 grammes and I learned that some weeks you go up and some weeks you’ll go down, but just stick to the better habits and that will give you a result over a long time.

Speaker 3 (48:09):

I love it. That’s so good. And I think that’s important to tell because so often we hear guys Rob, that are going to do, in 70 days I’m going to be ripped or I’m going to just do something crazy to get a result as fast as possible. This idea of we talk about one at a time over time, and I think Phil did that really, really well. No better place than in his health.

Speaker 2 (48:29):

Yeah, there’s some big challenges out there that you see out there where a lot of guys do big challenges and I think those challenges are good to be able to snap people into action. And I know I’ve done them in the past to be able to get you moving, but the big thing around what I really like about what Phil’s done was long-term sustainable habitual change. And that’s been the difference. And we’ve got a whole framework around this around what we call the Bevan, which is all about what you do on a daily, weekly basis and really changing those fundamental habits on a day to weekly basis. We’ll do a separate episode on that purely on the Bevan, but Phil, for you it was just pure fundamental, habitual changes. Consistent changes over a period of time rather than yo-yo fad diets. And that’s what’s been able to help you lose it and keep it off on the longterm, hasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (49:20):

Yeah, a hundred percent. And that was kind of after failing so much in my life with diet and weight loss, it was the plan from the start. And it’s again, in reflection, I look back now going, it was the best thing I ever did because now I don’t even call it a diet, it’s just a change. And now I’ve done it for so long, it’s not like I’m not going to fall off of it because it’s the habits that I do now. I’ve actually, you go to the gym and I hated the gym, now I go to the gym, I love the gym and the eating is just what I do. And then I can go and have one bad day, but I know the next day I’m back on. And that’s the best thing because obviously when you feel you are on a diet, you’re fighting all that emotion that comes with being on a diet. So I think you’ve got to find the steps or improvements you can make as small as they are and stick to them and then just go along for the ride.

Speaker 2 (50:22):

It becomes a lifestyle change. It’s not something that you do, it’s something that who you are and who you are is a reflection of your habits, but it’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle choice.

Speaker 1 (50:35):

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (50:37):

Yeah, that’s great. And I think it’s a lot easier when you’re not trying to work a hundred hours in a week to fit in a gym session or make a meal or prepare something other than driving through maccas for sure. So you can sort of see how this all stacks up, which I love. Alright, now let’s round out this and theme we’re on in terms of having this and that rather than one or the other. Let’s come around full circle and talk about business. Where is the business today and what are you most proud of and some of those milestones along the way of where you’ve been able to get to as a result of, by the way, chopping your hours down by, well over half a week, let’s call it.

Speaker 1 (51:13):

Yeah, I think revenues should be over four mil this year. So from one to four, obviously hours from a hundred down to 40. I think the nine day fortnight was a huge milestone. The commitment to kids and I guess business wise, we had 17 of mentioned that in the start, but we’re 17 guys on the ground. We’ve got estimator project coordinator, so I guess in wrapping up, they’re most proud of, I think it’s the mass. Proud of that. I faced the issues and the facts around some things that were great and I went about changing them and couldn’t have done it without provide support and guidance along the way. And yeah, it’s just a lot better now than it was put simply. It’s a bit of work, but it just was looking back now going, I thought I had a pretty good back then, but now it’s just like I didn’t know anything back then really. I was just trapped.

Speaker 3 (52:27):

Absolutely. And I love the business side for me when I look at it now, from your business perspective, the numbers are healthy, you understand those numbers, the teams in place and you recognise the importance of that. But I think there’s that one picture, and Rob, you might remember this as well, is the picture where Phil’s got the whole team, but it’s not just his team, it’s the families, it’s the kids. It’s the whole package of what the great outdoors has become over this sort of four years. And I think it’s something that not many guys get to, and I think it’s something that a lot of guys aspire to have, but you being able to take that journey and deliver on that and live that day by day shows up nowhere else other than in that picture. There’s nowhere else that it shows up anymore for me as I look at it.

Speaker 2 (53:10):

Yeah, that picture, that picture represents a lot. It represents a guy who overcome his fears of moving forward. I remember our very first call feels like, Rob, I’m not getting off the tools and I do not want to be getting admin on board. I will not do it Rob. And that that conversation was just fear. He was scared, he didn’t know all that fear of what we’ve spoken around at the start. And when I see that photo of all the team lined up, all the kids in the photo Kell in there, it just shows a family run business, all the trucks, all your equipment, all your gear in the background, that one picture represents a guy who’s been willing to go on a journey of transformation to change his own life, change his family life, have the opportunity to create great employment opportunities for his team and just do amazing work in the marketplace without being a slave to the business. And that one picture to me is we actually use it in launch to be able to show guys what’s possible. It just represents a guy who’s been willing to go on a journey of change and transformation and overcome the challenges that every business owner faces at the million dollar mark. So yeah, mate, you should be pretty proud when you see photos of your team and all your equipment decked out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:31):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I think I look at that photo and I think, geez, I’m lucky, got a really stable team and I think you touched on it probably better than I did, but I think I’m probably most proud that I faced all those facts and I’ve now created an environment where I can have a good business and a good home life and a good family and be there, be there, and not just be business dad as we’ve touched on, and be there for an hour to tuck me into bed and go, I better get back to it. So that’s by far biggest win out of it all to actually have it all and you can have it all. So ask me that. Four years ago I wouldn’t have believed you, but yeah, it, it’s a really great space now.

Speaker 2 (55:17):

And it’s not luck, mate. It’s a reflection of pure willingness to overcome the fears you face and have the willingness and the courage to be able to transform yourself and push into the unknown. And that’s what it is because you were at that fork in the road and a lot of business guys do get to that point and they make the decision to either stay there and suffer or shrink back down and give up on their dreams. And it’s not luck, mate. It’s pure courage to be able to step into the unknown and create the life that you always knew you wanted. So yeah, you should be bloody proud mate as we are.

Speaker 1 (55:55):

Yeah, thanks. Thanks and really appreciate the support I’ve had from pava and you guys along the way. I couldn’t have done it without you, so yeah, thanks.

Speaker 3 (56:05):

It’s been an absolute privilege and a pleasure, mate. But before we let you go, I’m going to test this theory that you’ve now leaning into the unknown and I’m going to ask you a question about what’s next.

Speaker 1 (56:15):

Yeah, I think there’s a little bit to just round out what I’m still doing. To be truthful, I’m not real sure. I think once you’ve got all the obvious pain points sorted out, there’s no real pain anymore for me. I’ve got to have to work that out. I think for me, I’m just transfixed on finishing what I’ve started and locking that away rock solid. And then I think I’ll probably allow myself at that point to probably think what’s next. But at the moment I couldn’t answer you. I think it’s just, what’s this space?

Speaker 3 (56:54):

I like it. Can I give you a hint?

Speaker 1 (56:57):

Sure.

Speaker 3 (56:58):

I think that next step for you about what’s next is figuring out what you really want to build, what that legacy’s going to look like in terms of how we speak about it. But what do you want comes next? Not what do you have to fix, not what do you have to rebuild, not what you have to reconsider. You’re a different bloke, you are a different husband, a different father, a different leader than what you were back then. Those gaps have been filled in and as they get filled in, I think the foundation you’ve built for yourself to step off and go, well, what do I really want and what do I want to create?

(57:32):

Is that next step for you? So I know I’m looking forward to watching that happen. I know Rob is for today, mate, and sharing so honestly about those fears that you had in the beginning for being so upfront and candid about what it took to get beyond that and sharing with where you are today, mate, it’s been, as I said, a privilege to be a part of that journey and walk through some of those challenges with you. But for joining us today, I’ll say thank you and Rob, anything else you want to add and then we might let Phil just sort of wrap up and let us know what he thought about the journey so far himself.

Speaker 2 (58:08):

No, thanks very much mate. It’s been a real privilege and we’re really grateful to be able to share the journey with you as well. So yeah, thanks for being on today and sharing your story. We’re super grateful mate and super proud. Yeah, we’ve loved it.

Speaker 1 (58:21):

Yeah, no worries guys. Happy to be on.

Speaker 2 (58:23):

Well, hopefully you’ve enjoyed today’s episode and hearing Phil do from The Great Outdoors huge journey of change and transformation over the last four year period. It’s been a real privilege to be able to bring this story to you and hopefully it’s really inspired you to be able to make some really positive change in your life regardless of where you’re at in your journey. We’re keen to hear from you. Let us know, give us some feedback in The Trade Den Facebook group around what you’ve loved about this episode, what hit home for you the most, and what inspiration you’ve taken from this episode to be able to really make some change in your world.

Speaker 3 (59:08):

Before we let you go, can I just add Rob, that especially if this episode has resonated and you are listening to this thinking, I’ve got those fears, number one, absolutely normal. A lot of guys that come to us come at this point. The next step for you, if you like, is homework this week is to go and make that booking. Jump in the show notes, make a booking, and have a chat to Rob about this and get your journey going because getting stuck and wondering what can I do and not liking the answers that you’re looking at, you’ll stick in that place unless you take some action. So please do use of all things this story that Phil’s told us today and book in a call with Rob to have a chat around where you are at and let’s see if we can get you moving as well.

Speaker 2 (59:47):

Thanks for tuning in today and looking forward to coming back next week. Cheers guys.