Episode 28 Podcast Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Resilience is a mental muscle that must be constantly used and developed. And as they say, if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. Hi everyone. Rob Kropp here and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back, Dan. How’s things?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good to be back. Very well, thank you, Rob. Feeling great, feeling excited about this episode. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah I’m doing well. I’m doing well. I’ve been looking forward to this episode for a while now. We planned out this episode a long time ago and it’s a bit of a mindset conversation today, and we’re going to be talking a lot about resilience, developing an unstoppable mindset, thriving in challenging times. It’s one of those things that we just got to get our mentally strong. That’s what we’ve got to develop as good businessmen, good husbands and fathers and good leaders. We just got to develop that resilience muscle. I’m looking forward to talking about today.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It is, it’s a word that you hear a lot these days, but I think there’s a lot of work that can go on around it. And I think today for us, it’s going to be important to try and really hone in on what we mean by resilience. How do we deal with it, how do we coach it with clients, just sort of our take on it and really put some depth behind the word that is used a lot at the moment about having to have this thing called resilience. So no, looking forward to getting into the conversation. I think before we start though, I know you do, and I’m looking forward to this. You’ve got a short story that you want to give to everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, I love this story and it’s actually out of a little bit of a clip that Jocko Willink made a little while ago and it’s really stuck with me ever since. For those who don’t know Jocko, he’s a commander of a SEAL team task unit, bruiser when he was stationed in Iraq, fighting in the Battle of Remandi. What I really like about Jocko is he’s been able to take that situation and take all the learnings from leadership of what it was like back then in Iraq as a commander and write a really, really good book on leadership called Extreme Ownership. And I love that book. It’s actually one of my favourites when it comes to leadership and he’s gone on to be able to record, write a couple of other books since and all those types of things. But there was a transcript from Jocko’s podcast actually called Good. And what I want to be able to do is read out this transcript of this podcast because it’s something that I think sets us up for today around how we can handle situations, handle challenges, and it’s almost like a frame of mind and I just love his resolve and resolute mindset that he’s got. So should we get into it?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, let’s do it. I look forward to hearing your Jocko voice.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I don’t even want to attempt it. I really want to, but I don’t want to attempt it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Go on. I’m looking forward to it. Crack on. Sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Good. By Jocko Willink, how do I deal with setbacks, failures, delays, defeats and other disasters? I actually have a fairly simple way of dealing with these situations. Summed up in one word. Good. When things are going bad, there’s going to be some good that will come from it. Oh, the mission got cancelled. Good. We can focus on another one. Didn’t get the new high speed gear we wanted. Good. We can keep it simple. Didn’t get promoted good. More time to get better. Didn’t get funding good where you own more of the company, didn’t get the job you wanted. Good. Go out, gain more experience and build a better resume. Got injured, good. Need a break from training, got beat. Good. We learned unexpected problems. Good. We have to figure out a solutions. That’s it. When things are going bad, don’t get all bummed out. Don’t get started. Don’t get frustrated. No, just look at the issue and say, good. I’m not trying to sound like Mr. Smiley positive guy. That guy ignores the hard truth. That guy thinks a positive attitude will solve problems. It won’t, but neither will dwelling on the problem. No accepting reality, but focus on the solution. Take the issue, take the setback, take the problem and turn it into something good. So get up, dust off, reload, recalibrate, reengage, and go out on the attack.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Wow, I love it. Such a powerful story. And I think for our topic today, just a perfect starting point. I really love it. I think that word engage sort of sums it up. You say good and all of a sudden it’s not the fight or flight syndrome. It’s like, all right, I’m gearing up to go through this challenge. I’m gearing up for this thing. There’s going to be something that comes out of it that I’m going to engage with, so I really love it. I think that’s great stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, it’s almost like it’s how you handle situations and how mentally tough you are to be able to handle the problems that we’re all faced. And that’s what I like about that story is we’ve all got issues, we’ve all got challenges, we’ve all got problems, but it’s how you show up in the face of adversity. It’s how you show up in the face of a problem or a setback, and it’s how you navigate that path forward is what matters. And that’s what resilience is about. How do you become mentally tough and mentally strong to be able to handle that? And that’s what I love about this story. It’s like, all right, come on, bring it on, run at me, come up with me more with more problems because I know I’m stronger than. And that’s what I love about Jocko’s story.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And it is, it’s such a great thing. Just one word, good, that’s the response to whatever comes up. It’s going to be good because I’m going to go from there. I’m not going to start with run, not going to start with leave it, not going to start with how do I avoid it, but just good. Now what? So love it. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. What is resilience, how to approach challenges, develop an unstoppable mindset, see how this shows up in the real world When we talk about how we’ve dealt with coaches before, we’re going to share some stories, personal stories about how we’ve had to face up to some of the challenges we’ve had to go through and really how do we set ourselves up to navigate the inevitable challenging times that are ahead, we know of the challenges that we’ve got. We know we’re all going to have them. How do we set ourselves up for that initial response, that initial engagement, which Jocko did so well by coming up with his way of doing it, which is just going good. That’s the default. Let’s go. So I think it’s a really exciting episode today. And Rob, I think let’s start off with the first sort of part of this, which is let’s just dive in and sort of put a bit of a bow around what is resilience?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I like to think of resilience as it’s a muscle. It’s not something that you are born with. It’s not something that you can just click your fingers and say, I’ve got. Resilience is an inside game. It’s an internal game of an internal muscle where you develop it and you become internally stronger to be able to bounce back from setbacks or challenges that we’re all going to face in life. It’s an inner game, it’s a mindset, it’s a resolve, it’s a way, it’s a of being for you to be able to develop this thing called resilience. And I think it’s something that we all have to go on that journey to be able to do.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Absolutely. Like you said, it’s not going to change. I mean problems are going to exist. You’re going to have things come up, relationships are going to shift in ways you don’t like them. Jobs are going to go in directions, careers are going to happen, markets are going to shift all of this stuff. The idea of somehow the world’s going to be perfect at some point, and then I don’t need any of these sort of skills. I don’t have to deal with challenges, I don’t have to come up with a way of navigating tough times is just, I think it’s absolutely fool hearted to think that you’re ever going to get to that point. So we’ve got to start looking at, well, what do we need to do? And this word resilience and what lies around it I think is really important because yes, it’s about, in my mind it’s about bouncing back, but it’s also being able to stand there in front of the challenge before you’ve even gone through it.
(08:46):
I think a lot of people say that resilience is all about how you bounce back and what do you do after a really tough time? Do you get back up or not? But I think there’s a step to resilience that says, well, depending on how resilient you are, what sort of challenge are you even willing to go and encounter? What are you willing to engage in? Because if you are not resilient and those challenges you’re willing to face aren’t going to be that big. So you’ve got to take resilience as more than just the response to a challenge. I think it’s how you set up for that whole rock in front of you that is the challenge.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It’s almost like your relationship with challenge and how willing you are to embrace it and bounce back when you go through challenge, it’s as you’re right, it’s not just the ability to bounce back when faced with a challenge, but it’s how you go about willingness to stare down, challenge and navigate through and come out on the other side stronger. And I think it’s one of those things that life’s hard. Business is hard, relationships are hard. Being healthy is hard. Life’s just hard in general. But it’s our ability to be able to get that thick skinness around us to be able to have fixed skin and develop that resilience muscle to be able to push through those times. Because as business people especially, which is what we are, and a lot of those listening is we’ve chosen this path. We’ve chosen business ownership, we’ve chosen to be husbands, fathers, businessmen, and we’ve chosen this journey to be on. We have to accept that there’s going to be challenges along the way. And where we end up in life is really determined by how willing we are to stare down challenge and push through them when we’re faced with them.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And I think we miss a trick when we say that resilience is all about our response to getting back up or do you bounce back that involves you getting knocked down in the first place. And yes, you will get knocked down, but if all you’re focused on with resilience is the aftermath, then you miss that trick that you just spoke about. It’s that being able to gear up and endure the challenge that you’re going into in the first place.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah. Well when we look back at that good example by Jocko, that’s his attitude towards challenge. That’s what that is, is it’s like, okay, there’s a problem. Awesome, let’s get on with it kind of thing. And he stares down the problem, he looks for the positive in it, he looks for the learning in it and then looks for another opportunity to keep pushing forward. And I was only having a call with someone the other day and we’re having a conversation with a client and I had to pat him on the back. He’s been through a couple of years of really challenging times and I had to pat him on the back. He’s just popped out the other end. And what I really admire about this guy is his ability to keep looking for ways to keep push through and what this guy’s been through in the last couple of years would make any man crumble at his knees. But for him to be able to get through it in one piece, pop out the other end and still have his sanity in his family and a good business at the back end, man, it’s incredible what he is been able to do, but that’s just off the back of the resilience that he’s built and he’s never but give up attitude and he’s willing just to stare down challenge and keep cracking on no matter what. And it’s impressive when you see guys like that to be able to push through those challenging times.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
It is. And make no mistake, they need that resilience at the start in the middle, not just at the end in order of how do they pick themselves up. So I think that’s sort of the punchline for me is just expand your mindset around what is resilience and when you need it because that shifts your relationship to challenge, like you said. So well, I really, really like that.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
It’s almost like, I don’t know, it’s a bit of a fantasy that a lot of, especially business owners, they’ve got this fantasy that the bigger my business gets, the easier it’s going to be and my problems will go away and the bigger I get, the less problems I’ll have and the less worries I’ll have and the less problems and this, it’s just not true. It’s just a fantasy. And I’ve found in business in my own journey that the more you push out of your comfort zone into the unknown and the more that you push out into a life that you want to create and build rather than just what you’ve got, you get resistance. You get faced with the resistance, you get tested with challenge to be able to go, Hey Rob, how bad do you want this? And how hard are you willing to fight? And so life is always testing us in certain ways and it’s the guys who develop this resilience muscle have the ability to be able to go from strength to strength to strength without ever giving up. And I think the problem is a lot of people in society look at them and go, well, he’s just lucky and he was born with that mental toughness, but it wasn’t they at some point in time, they’ve had to learn to develop that resilience muscle.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And it’s a big one, isn’t it that easy for you? You’ve already done it. And it’s like, well, yeah, I have, I’ve developed, I’ve done the work, I’ve lifted the weights I’ve been through through the fire. It’s huge. So what we think where we want to start is maybe listening to this, we want you to stop for a minute and just reflect. So think about the last time you were given a curve ball or a challenge that you had to face and just to sort of get your mind working in your own context, how did you react? What was the initial reaction when you were first confronted by the challenge? How did you go through that challenge and was it helpful and maybe what could you have done differently? Just sort of think through that and reflect on that for a moment and then we can get into the second part is, well, how should you approach challenges and how do you develop and how do we start to develop this unstoppable mindset?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
How do you define unstoppable mindset and how do you go about developing it, do you think?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I think the thing for me is probably the outcomes of going through a challenge is a good way to start. Where do you go and what is an unstoppable mindset? I think there’s so many ways to describe that, but to try and put I suppose a coaching blend and a framework on it, there’s probably three layers to it that I look at. And when you’re confronted by whatever it is, a disorder, a chaos, a challenge, a test, the unknown, whatever it is, there’s three things that can come as a result of that. And your unstoppable mindset probably lands at the end of it. But if we walk through it and we looked at, well, you can come out of a challenge and be fragile, so you can be fragile. If you think about a package or a delivery package and you think about the stickers on it, someone’s walking down the street with the package on, the stickers on the box is fragile.
(15:59):
And what that means is that that box is going to break if you drop it, if it’s met with any resistance, any challenge, it’s going to smash. Whatever’s inside that box ain’t going to last, and that’s being fragile. So going from there, if you’re fragile, you’re going to break. If we look at being resilient as the next phase, then what we’re saying is, Hey, you can probably drop this box. It’s not necessarily going to smash things inside are going to be okay to a point. And that’s the big thing about resilience. It still involves to a point, there’s a level of tolerance that you’ve got for things and then you are eventually going to smash break whatever it is, and you’ve got to get up, which people believe is more resilience. But in fact, what we want to do is go to unstoppable mindset level.
(16:45):
There is a step beyond that and that’s called being anti-fragile. So if you’re going to be anti-fragile, which is the opposite of fragile, most people think the opposite of being fragile is being resilient. It’s actually not. It goes from fragile to resilient to anti-fragile. So what do we mean by antifragile? Antifragile is when you are met with challenge, when that box gets dropped, drop it, kick it, do whatever you want because when you pick it up again, it’s going to be stronger a result of the challenge it’s been through. So anti-fragility is all about being stronger out the other side as opposed to breaking or just being resilient enough not to break in that one instant. So anti-fragile is probably when we talk about what’s an unstoppable mindset, it’s the ability to think in terms of I’m anti-fragile, kick me, bring the challenge on. I’m going to go through it because I’m going to come out the other side stronger jocko’s mindset of good, really I’m going to use this challenge to improve, to get stronger, to get better. So for me, that’s where it goes to.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And that doesn’t come from getting knocked down once and wrapping yourself in bubble wrap, hoping you don’t go into challenges any further. That’s embracing challenge and developing thick skin that’s doing the reps against in the challenge world, isn’t it?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It really is, and it’s not being tied to the outcome. If I get through the challenge, I’ll be more resilient or I’ll be anti, it’s not about getting through it, obviously that’s an outcome you hope for, but it’s just meeting that challenge head on. And I think that’s in terms of a process driven idea for an unstoppable mindset, that’s probably the first thing. You’ve got to be able to accept the challenge. That’s really our first step for an unstoppable mindset.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I really love that anti fragility mindset around how do we end up there, but what’s a process that we can follow to be able to do the reps to develop this unstoppable mindset and get to this phase of anti-fragility?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, it’s a good question because I think so much of when people start on this journey, it’s all about the result they got from the challenge. If I get through it, if it’s a good outcome, if I come through unscathed, then I’ll have developed something. But really to get to an anti-fragile mindset, you’ve got to think about what we just said. The definition was it’s drop me, kick me, do whatever you want with that box with the sticker on it saying Antifragile, I’m going to get stronger every time you do it. And I think to get through that, if we looked at it sort of a three step process for it, the very first step has to be you have to accept the challenge. You can’t get around it, you can’t baulk at it, you can’t hopefully avoid it or wish it would go away. That’s been that Mr. Smiley that you talked about at the very beginning of the call. So I think step one is just knowing that you have to accept the challenge in order to become anti-fragile to be dropped, you’ve got to be willing to be in the challenge itself to start with.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And do you think it’s also accepting that challenge is always inevitable anyway?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I do. I think as I said, the goal or the outcome is not to avoid challenge. That’s not how you become stronger. That’d be like going to the gym and saying, if I never lift up a weight somehow I’m going to be the strongest I’ll ever be and every time I lift up a weight, I’ll get weaker as I go. It just that logic doesn’t suit, it doesn’t work, and when we’re talking in this topic, it’s the exact same sort of principle.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Okay, step two, what do you got for us around step two once you’ve accepted it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Once you accept the challenge, you’ve got to tackle it, you’ve got to engage with it. And then again, a word that we heard at the start of the episode, you have to be willing to engage with the challenges you get. It’s not how do I outthink it, how do I outrun it, but how do I engage with this? And it’s not just running blindly into it. You can be strategic, you can be smart, you can build up the knowledge you need, you get time to think about it. That’s what Jocko does when he buys it with that word good. It just puts him in a frame of mind to accept the challenge and then tackle it head on. So that’s really step two. If you’re going to engage with the problem, then you can get kicked around. Then you’re willing to get a couple of knocks, then you’re willing to see what you’re made of, but you’ve got to go through the process not enough just to stare it and go, it’s here. What are you going to do about it? It’s probably the next thing when we talk about tackling it head on.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I really like that with Jocko’s good because when it’s his frame of reference or frame of mind of how he then approached that situation’s like, okay, we were faced with this good and then he approached the opposite. So what he was doing is turning a bad situation and looking for the positive in that bad situation and then moving forward powerfully to be able to see that there’s hidden blessings in that challenge and I think that’s what helps people go from strength to strength to strength. It’s their relationship to be able to hit the wall from the challenge, accept that that’s a challenge, is there, acknowledge it, find the positive or the good in it and powerfully move forward. It’s not trying to change the challenge, it’s the ability to control what we can control in our own mind, finding the hitting blessings and moving on. And that’s part of the tackling it head on situation, isn’t it?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
It is. That’s absolutely right and it’s how do you show up as your best self in preparation for what you’re going to go through? And that’s what good does. It’s like all at least sets me up to tackle this head on as my best self as opposed to being defeated when you start, how many people have the self-talk that goes, Jesus, this is going to be tricky. Imagine if you’re in the middle of you are working with taskforce bruiser and the first thing that happens when you come up against the challenge is, geez, this is going to be pretty hard. Dunno if we’re going to make it out of this. It just doesn’t work. You’re not going to come out of that. Well, your resilience is already being depleted before you tackle the problem head on, you say good, there’s that sense of bring it on, we’re going through this, we’re going to learn. Something’s going to come out of it. That’s good. That then sets you up to engage with that challenge a whole lot better than probably the alternative that a lot of people have.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Before we get into step number three, which is going to be learn and grow from it, I want to tell a little story around this around a real life example and a client going through this at the moment, so I don’t want to forget about step number three, but I want to park it and come back to it and a great example of this is tackling something head on is because like we said earlier in the conversation is you can’t work your way through a challenge and then try and be resilient at the back end. Resilience comes from accepting it, finding the hidden blessing and tackling it head on and developing the resilience along the way as you navigate the challenging waters. We’ve got a client at the moment and it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it, the challenge that this guy has faced over the last 12 months from this particular project that he’s been working on.
(23:43):
I just look at him and it just amazes the amount of resilience that he’s got to navigate that situation. It’s been horrific, the situation that he’s been in and I would never, we’ve got to be careful what we say. I would never wish that upon anyone around the business problems, the financial impact, the impact it’s had on him personally, the attack on his character, the challenge that he’s gone through on a family point of view. It’s been horrific. But what I admire about this guy is he’s shown up every single day and he has tackled this situation head on the habits that he’s developed on a daily basis.
(24:34):
He does his gratitudes, he does his ice baths, he trains, he looks after himself, he spends time with his family, he’s done that and he’s been through all those things and he had to put those things in place to make him unstoppable, to navigate the challenging situations that he was in. He didn’t wait to get to the end of the project, which is almost coming to an end to be able to go, what did I learn from it and how could I be better next time? He had to develop the resilience throughout to get to the end because if he didn’t, there was no end for him and you know who I’m talking about about here, but man, he’s been resilient, hasn’t it? It’s been so inspiring.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I think he has. I would go a step further though and say he’s become anti-fragile. This has gone for a long period of time. Every time he thought he was through it, he got kicked again. He got dropped again, he got faced with the next challenge in this same saga and for him to come back time and time again, not only as a result I’ve got to go through it, but I’m going to get through this and be stronger each time. He’s actually improved on nearly every measure that you said as a husband, as a father, as an athlete. In his own definition of what that means. All of that stuff he’s improved on as he’s gone through this and that’s what we mean by anti-fragile. He’s getting stronger. The more you kick him now, it’s almost like you’re creating a monster. This guy is literally getting stronger by the minute. Every challenge he faces,
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I’m nervous how good he’s going to be because he’s unstoppable now.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Exactly. And he’s a young guy too. It’s not like this is a guy at the end of the life is a guy who’s just starting out and to have that experience, you can talk about the blessing of it and all that sort of stuff, but really boil it down to what it is. Has he become resilient but he’s transformed from just being resilient into this anti-fragile confidence of geez, I can go through any challenge. I’m willing to go through any challenge because at the back end of it I’m going to be stronger than what I was when I went in. I think that’s a big testament to the way that he’s approached it, the way he’s been coached through it, the whole situation.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
His resolute belief, his willingness to turn a shit, a horrible situation into something good, his ability to learn from it, be better from it, implement better systems, processes, he’s stronger, his family is stronger, his business is better for it. That’s an example of when you front up the challenges and tackle it head on and become resilient as you work through it, you just get thicker skin, thicker skin, thicker skin along the way and you become unstoppable and it almost gets to that point where it’s like, right, where’s my next challenge? Run at me, see if you can break me. And that’s what this guy’s all about. He’s come to the tail end of it and obviously he’s going to move into step three, which is learn and grow from it, but he’s been learning and growing from it throughout the process, not just at the end. Now he’s going to have to work through and unpack it, which we are in coaching now we’re coming to the end of it. But he’s kind of done that along the way, hasn’t it? And that’s what’s made him resilient through it, not try and get resilient at the back end of it.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, learning and growing from it as our third step. So the process of having an unstoppable mindset, three steps, accept the challenge, tackle it, head on, learn and grow from it, but it doesn’t mean learn and grow from it at the end. What lessons can I take out of it? What can I learn as I go? How do I use this situation? There’s many mini challenges in every challenge you take if you really break it down, no matter what the challenge is, there’s always the challenge of getting started. There’s the challenge of seeing it through. There’s the challenge of finishing it off the best you can. There’s the challenge to keep going. All these mini challenges happen with every challenge. So your opportunity to learn and process these three steps happens multiple times, not just one at the very end. So learning and going through, it’s huge.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
So how do we learn from that? What are some of the questions that we can ask ourselves to be able to find the positives and learn from challenging situations?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And I think this is an important point. It’s probably, if I can go back just half a step before we get into the actual questions. I think the thing is telling that story as you did, don’t get confused or don’t twist it into all the bigger the challenge, the more I get out of it. So you start looking for huge things. It doesn’t matter what the challenge is, just the fact that this guy’s gone through that. It’s amazingly inspiring, it’s amazingly admirable and all the things that are coming out of it are great, but don’t get hooked on the size of the challenge. That’s an ego play in terms of thinking, well now I’ll pick a bigger challenge than that and see that throw and watch me go from there. You are missing the point if you’re thinking that. So any challenge can go through this process of the three things.
(29:37):
So accepting it, tackle it, head on, learn and grow from it simple. And when we get to the questions around, well, how do you learn and grow? Again, simple three questions that we’ll talk to. The first one being what went well or what’s going well? If you’re in the middle of the challenge, you’ll always find an answer to that question. You’ve got to be willing to ask it. A lot of people don’t even ask that question, but what went well? What’s going well? What could go well? That question’s huge is the first one. Second one is what needs work? What will need work? What do I have to work on? What’s that obstacle that I probably I need to improve on? What needs work? That’s the second one. That’s how you learn and grow from things. Our third one is, what will I do differently next time?
(30:20):
That’s the question. Every time you can ask that again, people think you only ever asked that at the end. Keep asking it as you go, what would I do differently next time? It’s like doing reps in the gym. It’s like building the muscle. You don’t just do it once and go right, cool, done. You do it all the way through. So what would I do differently next time I did that today I really wasn’t at my best. I need to work on this, this and this. What will I do differently next time when next time’s tomorrow or in another meeting in another hour’s time or the next sales call? So there’s these three questions, what went well? What needs work? What will I do differently next time? Those are the three ways that you reflect on learning and growing through the challenges as you go through them and at the end.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
In coaching, we get clients to experience this in multiple ways. We get them to do it on a weekly basis through what we call Monday morning momentum. We get them to do it quarterly in their last quarters in review, and we get them to do it yearly in their last year in review. And it’s just the mental reps. It’s what went well, what needs work, what am I going to do differently next time? Now you can do that what weekly, quarterly, yearly. But you can do it in any moment as well because what it enables you to do is centre yourself and have a balanced mindset or a balanced perspective to be able to navigate the challenges. So when you accept the challenge, tackle it head on, then it’s your ability to balance your mindset, see the positives in a shit situation, then move forward and every time you take a step forward, balance that mindset.
(32:05):
What went well, what needs work, what am I going to do differently? And if you can you those three questions on a regular basis, what’s helped you move forward because you just become stronger and stronger and stronger and develop that muscle to be able to keep taking steps forward. And even when you don’t want to get out of bed because it feels like the world is just caving in on you, it’s your ability to step up, dust yourself off, reload, recalibrate, and re-engage like Jocko said. And even when you don’t feel like doing it the most, this is a test of your character when you feel like things are at their worst, it’s your ability to dust yourself off and keep moving forward. That’s a testament of how strong someone is from a resilience point of view.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, absolutely agree. So let’s keep talking. I like the story you told and I think we’re sort of coming rounding the corner on this episode, but let’s have a think around how resilience shows up in the real world. So life experiences, challenges, whatever they might be. And I think the more, the big example, we’ve used big examples, right? Jocko and task unit Bruiser, the guy we’re talking about in our programme at the moment, that’s going through hell and back. All of that sort of stuff is great, but any challenge, like I said can be used and you can use that sort of framework and I think sort of maintaining this level of the stories we tell and the questions we ask ourselves is really important. It can help us adapt and it helps us cope with emotions effectively and find strength within ourselves. So I’m going to turn the tables a little bit Rob and I’m going to say what’s, when you think about resilience and have showed up in your world, what are some of the things that come up for you in terms of real world resilience in your own world?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I look back over my years, I’ve faced a lot of challenges. I’ve achieved a lot of good things, but I’ve faced a shit load of challenges and I don’t want to go into all of ’em. Early days it was probably my parents splitting and getting divorced. That really challenged me, but it set me on the path that I am today. It was moving towns and having to change schools. It was really finding my way and my career that was experienced. A lot of challenges there. Getting knock backs from jobs and everything. When I thought I was on certain career paths, moving towns and cities that really made me stronger. Those challenging times made me a lot stronger. Relationships that have fallen over a failed business partnership fell over losing a lot of money and learning a lot of lessons early on in my early twenties from some couple of decisions that I made that set me back.
(35:07):
Like I look back over my years, I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I’ve just been willing to go from challenge to challenge to challenge and get stronger and stronger and stronger and there’s been numerous times, but I look back on every one of those and I’ve just become a better person from it and I’ve become stronger and more resilient and mentally tough and they’re all the things that I’m grateful for when I look back over my time, the good things that have happened in my world, they haven’t made me stronger. The challenging things in my world is what’s made me who I am today and that’s why I love challenge so much and why I love embracing challenge because I know when I get to the other side, I’m a stronger and better person for it.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I like that. I think you’re right. I think the good things that happen to you, they don’t necessarily make you stronger, but all the good things that happened to you, you have there, they all originate out of challenge. Some way you think about anything that’s happened really that you’re proud of that makes you sort of look back at and go, that made me stronger, whatever it was. It always comes from the birthplace of challenge. That’s where it starts. And if you’re not willing to engage in that and develop that muscle and what we’ve talked about today and go into this stuff, then you don’t get to have the good, you get average in terms of well, that’s what you get, but you never really learned the power of what a challenge can do for you as opposed to what people think, which is what’s happening to me.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
The way that I really honed in and built this relationship with challenged and developed an unstoppable mindset with myself was endurance cycling. That was the best way that I did it many years ago. I didn’t ever love cycling. It’s not like I love cycling as a sport, but I did it as a challenge because I want to know how far I could push myself. That’s why I did it. And I’ve done a couple of big fundraising events, smiling for Smitty out of Queensland where we raised money for cancer research and everything, loved it. And then I did three Peaks, which is based out of Victoria. I did that three times and that challenge was 235kms a cycling, four and a half thousand metres of elevation. You’ve got to do it under 13 hours. So think you start at the top of Falls Creek, you go down the front of Falls Creek up over to gap up Mount Hotham down over the back of Romeo and then you ride up the back of Falls Creek, which is 10kms at 10% and then come back into Falls Creek and you’ve got to do that at another 13 hours.
(38:04):
And that challenge taught me how far I can push myself and it taught me that the body doesn’t go where the mind isn’t willing to push it. And it taught me mental strength and grit and determination. I remember pulling over on the side of the road and vomiting and getting back on my bike and keeping on going and because there was no way, there was not going to stop that the third time I did it, my knee was busted coming into the ride, but I rode the whole ride feeling like someone was jabbing a knife in my knee every time I pedalled. I did that for 12 hours and so that’s why I see a lot of other people do running challenges and triathlons and everything because I think endurance sport like that, it shows you how far you can push yourself and it develops that never give up attitude. And for me that was the turning point in my career because it showed me how much I’ve got in the tank and how much I can push myself and how much I can dig deeper when I’m tested to be able to go down that line.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I was almost going to joke and say, so you didn’t do it for the medal at the end or just across the finish line and go, look at me. Isn’t this wonderful? I’ve done it. It’s the challenge itself. If anyone’s done that and I’ve done a few myself, but it’s that challenge in the moment. When you look back, I bet you if I said to you what was your most powerful memory or the part of any of those three rides that you did, what’s the one thing that stands out to you that you look back on fondly? I bet you going to answer something that goes on the basis of in the moment in the middle of that challenge. It’s never the end of it. It’s never the beginning because everyone’s shit scared of what’s going to have to happen and no one signed up for that feeling, but that bit in the middle, somewhere along that journey is when you really got the nugget that you wanted from the challenge.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, I’ve got a photo of the end and I’m actually holding my bike and that photo represents to me I can do anything that I put my mind to and I was busted. I was so broken at the end of it, but it was proof to myself that I can tackle any challenge that life throws at me and I’m unstoppable. That’s what helped me develop my unstoppable mindset and there’s been times in business and life where I’ve faced pretty big challenges past that, but it was that anchoring moment that I look back and go, no matter what life throws at me, I know I’ve got what it takes to be able to see my way through it.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, for sure. I love it so good. It’s how you get to that point I think where you can have the ability to say the problem’s here, the challenge is here. Good. I think that’s what it allows you to do. You go through that, you do something like that, you get to that point where you understand what Jocko’s saying by when he uses that one single word that covers so much.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
You got to find that within yourself. I think everyone’s got to go on their own journey to develop that muscle, their muscle to the point that they’ve got resolute belief, they’ve got confidence within themselves. They know they unlock how capable they truly are. Most people are living way below their potential. They don’t know what they’re capable of and I think they just haven’t gone on that journey to find out how far they can push themselves and develop that resilience to develop that never give up attitude and that never give up muscle. For sure. Dan, I’m mindful of time and we could probably tell stories all day here, but we better wrap a start wrapping this up. Is there anything you want to add to this to kind of put a big bow around our conversation around resilience today?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I don’t think there’s anything to add around the concept. I think we’ve described that well. We’ve given some good frameworks, some good reflection. I think what I will say though is that let’s be mindful of the stories that we’ve told today have been told from an individual perspective, the people facing challenges in their business, you doing endurance, cycling, going up those mountains by yourself. I think a big part of this, and let’s not forget it, is that you don’t have to do it all by yourself. And in fact, you didn’t do the ride by yourself. There was people that helped get you there. There was a community of support or a network of support that did exist. So I think it’s not sort of a next step or anything, but understanding about the strong connections you’ve got with family, community members, coaches that helps you cope with challenge and adversity. Even Jocko willing didn’t go into those battles by himself. So I think the ability to sort of look at the social relationships you’ve got that are positive and healthy, that helps. And I think that’s another reason or something just to really briefly touch on. I’m keen to hear from you about that’s why community is such a big part of our programmes and our coaching. We don’t coach in isolation. There’s always a community attached to whatever programme you’re doing at Pravar because we know that together we’re going to be stronger.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, community is huge because let’s face it, everyone goes through good times and everyone goes through challenging times. We’re always going to be going through those spaces and it’s easy to be able to fist pump and high five when things are going good, but it’s the community around us, within our programmes is what helps people navigate the challenging times. It’s your mates checking in on you going, Hey, how are you? Is everything okay? What have you got going on at the moment? Is there anything I can do to help? And when you’re facing challenge by yourself, it feels lonely, it’s isolating. You don’t know who to talk to, you don’t know where to get advice, and you don’t just have anyone to say, Hey, is everything okay? And so we see it so much in our community is that that’s the reason why our clients succeed in the good times and they succeed in the challenging times because of the strength of our communities and the culture that we’ve got on them, which is guys being raw, being real, being open, being vulnerable. They’re not afraid to put up their hand and go, Hey guys, I’m hurting. Can you help? Kind of thing. And then you get your mates flooding, flooding in and saying, what can I do? How can I show up? What do you need? Where are you at? And that’s what helps you through those challenging times is we all have challenges from a mental health point of view and when you’ve got good mates around you who are going through similar situations or been through similar situations, that’s what makes the challenges certainly a lot easier to navigate.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, for sure. Well said. I like it. Do we do key takeaways for today? What do you got?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Let’s do it. First one for me is it’s not what happens to you, it’s how you choose to confront it and push through. That would be my big takeaway from today.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I like it. Nice one. I’m going to go with the goal isn’t to remove challenge from your life. It is to be better at meeting the challenge when it inevitably arises.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
The last one for me is resilience is a mental muscle that must be constantly used and developed. And as I say, if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Absolutely. All right. I’m bringing it home when things are going bad, don’t get all bummed out. Don’t get started. Don’t get frustrated. Nope. Just look at the issue and say, good, what am I going to do about it?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Good.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
That’s it. That’s the Jocko voice. We got one.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
All right. To be able to round out today. What I want you to do is a bit of a reflection exercise out of today’s episode, and what I want you to be able to do is reflect on the past to be able to see what challenges that you’ve faced in the past, how have you been able to learn and grow from them, and how can you continually use them as fuel to push through the challenges that you’re currently facing now or you might be going to encounter in the future. But how do we use our past to be able to use it as fuel to push through to where we want to be able to go into the future as the benefit of hindsight. You’ve got the ability to create it right now, so use that as a bit of a reflection exercise. Use those challenges from the past to be able to make you stronger as you navigate this thing called business, family, and life. What do you think, Dan? Should we wrap it up there?
Speaker 2 (46:58):
No, I think we’re almost there, Rob. I think the only thing I would add is please, if you’ve liked this episode, if you’re a fan of the show, if you are part of the community, please join us. Give us a thumbs up, whatever you are listening to or however you’re listening to us, go in there and give us what they would call a five star review. Hopefully we’d love to hear from you, love to hear what you love about the show and definitely engage with us in The Trade Den on the Facebook community. If you haven’t already, the link is in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Excellent. Thanks for that, Dan. Looking forward to coming back to you in your ears next week and sharing some more golden nuggets. Thanks guys. See you soon.