Episode 3 Podcast Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The idea that through the cracks is where the light comes in, and we’re so busy sometimes trying to paint over those cracks and make sure no one can see the cracks, that the light never comes in.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi everyone. My name is Rob Kropp and welcome back to today’s episode. Good to have you here, Dan.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Great to be here. Rob, looking forward to this one. It’s a bit of a favourite this and it’s a really good foundational thing that I think it’s a good spot to start.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Absolutely. Well, today for our listeners, we’re going to be talking a bit about the three success principles. And I can’t wait to be able to talk about these today because I’m a big believer that principles are enduring. And I know that this is fundamentally, these have been the cornerstone to, I know that the success that I’ve achieved in my life in my short number of years, and I know it’s absolutely been the cornerstone of the clients that we serve, these principles are enduring. And so I know I’m a young fella and I’ll probably hang a bit of shit on Dan over these episodes that I’m younger than him. Dan, I know you love me talking about it, don’t you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Go on, keep going, let’s go.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
But when I look at my life, I feel like I’ve achieved some amazing things in my time, and I know you have done as well, Dan. And I don’t say that to gloat. I like to be a humble person. I’m quite private in what I do, but I do know that those results and those things that I’ve achieved in my life haven’t been by wishing, hoping and wanting and by sitting back and waiting for things to happen. They haven’t happened by chance. They’ve absolutely happened by design. And a lot of those things have come back to just a way of life, a set of principles that we live and breathe by. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about it about today. And there’s so much correlation, I believe around principles, whether it’s business, it’s life, it’s sporting teams, principles are almost enduring. And it’s something you can kind of anchor yourself on, isn’t it.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It is. I think when we look at principles and why we use them so much, and we rely on principles all the time when we’re doing group sessions and things like that with clients, it’s always starts with principles. And I think for me, there’s probably a couple of things with them. First of all, principles, I think they’re almost short hand and it encapsulates so much. You talked about all the lessons and things that you’ve done and the actions you’ve taken to get to where you are, Rob. I think what you do then is you distil that into, well, what was the principle that did that? And if people can get their head around the principle, then they’re sort of 80% of the way done that heavy lifting to go, all right, if that’s what it is, that’s my guide post. That’s where I need to head towards because that’s the clue that’s been left behind through all the trial and error of Rob or whoever it is.
(02:58):
And you look at those enduring principles that people talk about and the sayings they use, some of them are really positive by the way. Some of them can be really harmful. So you’ve got to be careful about what principles and what you talk about. But in doing that, we need to have that sort of short hand almost, and it allows us to shorten time it takes to get into that mode or into that zone or into that part of the world where this sort of stuff allows things to happen. So those principles are really important from that. I think the other thing, principles do not only attracting us towards the behaviour we want to take, but they also guard us against what we’re trying to avoid. If I follow this principle, and you’ll hear more about that in a minute, but if we follow a certain principle, it guards against something.
(03:44):
So if we know what it’s guarding against, it sort of gives us just a complete picture in that short idea that allows us to operate at the right level in the right zone. So for me, that’s what principles is really about and that’s why I love ’em so much and I live by them. And these three that we’re going to take you through today have absolutely become part of my world. And every single day they live and breathe. I see them hundreds of times a day, and I know you do too, Rob. We make sure we live by these principles and we reinforce them whenever we can. So they become automatic. We’re not thinking of them. What’s that principle and pulling it off a shelf? We’re living and breathing these principles almost automatically because we’ve seen them and heard them and talked about ’em so much.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, I think when you look at someone who’s achieved great things in life, it’s not about looking at them and going, gee, aren’t they lucky? Or they’ve got a silver spoon in their mouth and off they go. I think luck. There’s no luck in it. I’m a big believer people create their own luck. And when you look at people who have achieved great things in their world, it’s not about taking inspiration from them. It’s not about necessarily trying to copy their same strategy because we’re all individuals, and as husbands and fathers and family men and as businessmen and high performers, we can never copy someone because everyone’s unique in their approach and how they go about doing things. But what we do want to be able to do is look at the behaviours that they display. And so what I also love about principles, it’s more of a reflection of the behaviour of the individual in how they think, what they do, how they behave, because then that follows through into the strategy that they execute.
(05:32):
Strategy is a surface level side of things. Anyone can learn a strategy. You could jump onto YouTube today and learn a new strategy, whether it’s in marketing, sales, financial management, whatever it is. But the thing that creates results is behaviours and behaviours are off the back of principles. And so for our listeners, that’s why principles are so important is because principles almost become your guiding light in terms of your North Star, in terms of where you’re going. And it becomes almost that direction of how to move forward in a positive direction in life. That’s kind of what principles mean to me.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, I love that. And I think as you were talking to give that distinction around strategies versus principles and where they land, I think it’s the idea of you can get a recipe book from your favourite chef. I’m not a foodie. You’re probably more down that path than me. Pick a chef I know, like Gordon Ramsey and maybe Curtis Stone, I don’t know. That’s it. But pick those two people. They can put out a cookbook, they can put out a recipe, which if you follow those strategies in that recipe, you’ll end up making the cake, the roast, whatever it is. But that’s very different to the principles. And that’s the thing I think that sets the recipe apart from the actual principles that we use to get there, the journey that you went on, anyone can bake the cake really, but the experience, the journey of learning to bake that cake doesn’t come from just having the recipe. It comes from adopting the principles and living and breathing those and being consistent with them long enough so that you’re able to create the recipes yourself in different ways and learn to manipulate those as you need to as you go forward and you meet those challenges in life. So for me, that’s sort of the difference between principles and strategy. It’s probably a little bit of an aside, but yeah, that’s how I think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, for sure. And I love my sports. I’ve played a lot of sports growing up, rugby league, rugby union, cricket, soccer, new name, and I’ve played it, and I love doing a lot of correlation between sports and business because what is the essence around the thing that’s the similar between those two is teams. And when you’ve got the right people in the right position performing the right role, that’s what makes that sporting team or that business team successful. One of the big things that I know over time that I’ve drawn a lot of inspiration from is different sporting teams like the All Blacks. You look at them and why they’ve been so successful, maybe not so much at the moment. They’ve got a beating of recent times, but they’ve been so successful for so long. You look at different teams in the NFL, the NRL, you look at the Melbourne Storm just absolutely clinical and under Bellamy, and you just look at them and the thing that makes you look at them and go, well, why are those teams so successful for so long compared to other teams who just can’t make it into the top four or win grand finals?
(08:32):
And to me, it just comes down to culture and principles and the way that they operate as an organisation. And to me, culture is people like us do this around here. And that’s almost a reflection of these principles that we’re going to talk a bit about today is I know that what’s made me successful in my time, time. And I know that what makes our clients so successful and all of us as a coaching group here at Pravar Group is because people like us in this environment at Pravar Group do this around here and we follow these principles, which is just work over and over and over again. And I think that that’s to me why these are so powerful because sporting teams do it. Highly successful organisations do it. They’ve all got a series of cultures and principles and guiding lights, which when you get everyone on the same page, that’s the recipe for success, isn’t it?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah. I think you talked about before people create their own luck. I think luck doesn’t just happen out of the blue. It’s very rare that all of a sudden something happens. And look at that. We got lucky. I think we create the conditions for luck is what I like to sort of think of. And in creating your own conditions for luck, how do you do that? You have these sort of principles, these things you’re aiming for. You live by this code, this creed, this culture, how we do things around here. You live by that. And that’s what generates that idea of, well, now I’m creating the conditions for luck to show up the luck or the fortune or the success or the development or the progress. And if we can start by creating the right conditions for that, then we can start to bring in some strategies later on that we know are going to help.
(10:16):
But by far and away the most important thing is creating the conditions first. Like we said, using the analogy of the cake or the sports, whatever it is, we’ve got to a way of playing. We’ve, we know we’ve got to put the stove on, but until we create the conditions for that momentum to happen, for that to be the thing that comes up for us, really, we’re just sort of floundering around in the dark trying different things, throwing darts or even looking for hacks. You know what I mean? It’s that shortcut. What’s that one thing I need to do? We hear that all the time from clients usually when they’re brand new to us. What’s that one thing that’s going to make the big difference? It’s never one thing. There’s a whole ground work that you have to lay out a whole framework, a whole scaffolding that goes behind it. And I think that’s these principles form that scaffolding. So really keen to get into.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, I think one last point before we do is that you’re going to hear me say this all the time, is that mindset always precedes strategy. And I’ll say that again, this is like a punchline before we get into these principles. Mindset always precedes strategy. And you’re right, a lot of clients come to us going, come on guys, what are we got to do? And we always push back on them going, well, who do you need to be first? What’s the behaviours that you need to change before you work on the next strategy? So many business people are looking for the next hack rather than who do they have to be as a person to show up to be able to do that? And so when as the founder, CEO of Pravar Group, when I first formed this coaching organisation, I know that I’d been living and breathing by these principles and I brought them to the table.
(11:56):
And I know Dan, in part of your role as head of ops and head of the coaching team is this is the principles that we’ve emulated amongst our coaching team. And then these principles are now watered down, not watered down, but moved down into our coaching groups. And these become the foundational principles, and they’re the result of so many transformational results within our coaching group. So the final step in all this is now let’s bring it to the podcast. And so part of this is today is about sharing these principles with you, but these are going to be our foundational principles around this podcast as well, because we know that if you as a listener, just take these on board, live and breathe by these principles as well in your own way, then you are destined to achieve some amazing things in business and life more than you ever thought was capable.
(12:50):
And I know that sounds a little bit wanky, but I just know that these things are foundational to your success. So let’s jump into it. Number one is principle number one is face the facts. And I love this one. This is, I know it’s number one, but this is my favourite principle because it’s almost a bit of a sledgehammer. Real honest, open, raw, look yourself in the mirror and have a real honest conversation. So when this principle was brought about, it was take a little bit of inspiration from Jim Collins book, Good to Great, which he referenced the Stockdale Principle, the Stockdale Paradox, sorry. And that was a big principle that I know that we took a lot of inspiration from around face the facts. But gee, this is a bloody good principle, isn’t it?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
It is. And these principles, this is one we come back to all the time. This is how does the principle work, we just talked about why we love them so much. Think about why we love face the fact so much because it sets you up that that’s the reminder. That’s the thing you need to do. It also guards against a lot of stuff. What does it guard against? It guards against. It’s just living in some sort of future where it’s going to be all rosy and things are going to get better and it’ll be great. And Optimism’s got its place for sure. We have to be optimistic and believe and have hope that the future can be better than the present, but without facing the facts, we run the risk of just floating off into the distance. We get hooked on visions and dreams and we keep building them up in our mind.
(14:27):
And the Stockdale Paradox talks about that. It’s also, I remember getting taught when I was doing coaching, someone talked about it about someday aisle and living on someday aisle. And that’s a really nice place. And you build up in your mind this picture of this place where sometime in the future, it’s going to look amazing, it’s going to be brilliant, it’s going to be all awesome, and there’s unicorn fountains and all this sort of stuff happening, and the world’s great. And every time that gets a bit hard, rather than facing up to the facts, what I’ll do is just time travel into that future space, into that safe space, into that happy place. And all of a sudden it reduces the need to act. It’s like, all right, I can still go there. I can still feel okay in the moment, but it’s not real.
(15:09):
And it’s not based on the facts, and it doesn’t promote action. All it does is promote escapism. So what we’re trying to do, I think with this is guard against that idea that we float off into the sunset. So for me, face the facts is really about coming back, putting your feet on the ground. Like you say, Rob in, having that faith that yes, we’re going to get there. Yes, there’s a goal. Yes, there’s an outcome and a destination, which is critical. But hey, unless I open up that gap from want to be to where I’m starting, that’s what promotes the action. That’s what gets us into action. So for me, it’s really about having that place where I know where I want to go, but face the facts is way more important in terms of getting started.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
If we don’t face the facts, we can just disappear.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So when I think about what the Stockdale Paradox is, is you’ve got to be able to confront your reality, but have faith that you’ll prevail in the end. That’s what the Stockdale Paradox is. Zig Ziglar is almost a famous for saying is, you’ve got to expect the worst, expect the best, prepare for the worst, and capitalise on what comes. So this isn’t new, this whole principle, the greats that have gone before us in the personal development world have referenced this. You spoke around a bit bit before, but here we’ve distilled it down into face the facts. And the reason why I love to face the facts is it’s confronting having a real good honest look at yourself in the mirror and having an honest conversation around where you’re really at, not just across business, but across life, around your health, your wealth, your business, and your connections.
(16:46):
And the business owners that we deal with, they’re burley blokes, they’re blue collar workers in the trades and construction space. And there’s a whole industry, which is, it’s different these days because the whole conversation around feelings and mental health and wellbeing, that the whole stigma in the industry is changing. But we’re dealing with blokes who were taught from a young age, don’t share your feelings, don’t show emotion, don’t cry, don’t talk about what’s important to you. If something’s wrong, then you’re a pussy and all these types of things. So what that does is most blokes grow up with sheltered lives and sheltered hearts, and they’re not really willing to express around how they really feel. So what it does is because they become closed off. And I’m sure that if you’re a listener listening to this today, there’s a few things that might be rattling around in your world, but let’s start opening this conversation.
(17:48):
The reality is most guys are overworked, underpaid, and achieving far less than their true potential. They’re making less money than they probably could be if they’re out being a project manager for someone else that would have way more free time. And the reality is, is that they got into business to spend more time with their families. But the very thing that they’re in business for is the very thing that they’re not doing. And they’re not spending quality time with their wife or their partner. Their relationship is probably deteriorated. They’re not spending quality time with their wife and their kids. And most people are very good as human beings at bullshitting themselves around how rosy their life is. And I think social media’s got a lot to blame for that doesn’t.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It does. I can’t believe you just went there. I was thinking as you were talking that face, the facts is almost that antidote to that other principle, which says, fake it till you make it. And I think when you talk about social media and you talk about faking it till you’re making it, my God, that’s why you sort of almost vomit when every time you turn it on, it’s like, oh, isn’t the world amazing place? And it’s just not in terms of social media, it’s not real. How many people are facing the facts when they post that wonderful living my best life sort of picture or whatever it is you’re looking at. It’s just not. So I think that’s really why face the facts is such a, it confronts you, it slaps you in the face, it brings you back to that moment. You talked about how to face the facts in terms of consider what’s happening in your world.
(19:25):
And some of those prompts you gave were great. The other one is health. What about health? People not facing the facts there unless we’re on death’s door, a lot of people will ignore their health until that moment. But what would happen if we started to live by this principle? What would happen if we did face the facts right now? What would happen if you started to sit down and face the facts after you hear this podcast and just spend five minutes really looking in the mirror and finding out where am I really at? What’s the real situation and what by default then, or what comes next is what needs to change? What do I want to make progress on?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And I think when, let’s talk a bit about why people don’t want to face the facts. So most people sweep things under the carpet, hoping problems that go away. And they go, okay, I’ve got a problem with my health. I’m overweight. I’m not healthy, poor mental health, bad relationship with drinking, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is. They’ve got challenges or issues going on in their world. They know about it. They’re not idiots. They know what the reality is. But what they do is they sweep it under the carpet and pretend that that problem doesn’t exist, and they sweep it under the carpet hoping that that problem will go away. And Dan, you and I have seen it a million times and I’ve experienced it myself. I’m not immune to this. I’m sure you have as well. When we all know that when we sweep problems under the carpet, they actually don’t go away. They become like a bit of a snowball, don’t they? And they just get bigger.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That’s right. The pile gets bigger. And again, looking at an older principle or the old principle is out of sight, out of mind. That’s another shitty principle that people live by and they hold onto that. And again, it’s just the antidote or the opposite of facing the facts. But you look at the outcome and what happens when you actually do lift up that carpet and you start to go, alright, and you talk about it all the time. What happens when we do open up the cupboard and we get in there and we pull those skeletons out? And that’s where it all begins for everyone on this journey. It’s pulling out those skeletons, looking ’em in the face and facing those facts.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I know it’s bloody scary when you stash your problems away and don’t want to deal with them. A lot of that’s coming from a point of fear, scared, I’m scared, I’m scared of what might happen if I front up these, especially deep problems around relationship issues and drinking problems and drugs and issues within the business and all those types of things. People hide from their problems because they’re scared. That’s the reality. And they’re fearful around what they’ve got to do, who they’ve got to come or what might happen if they front up to them. And so what they do is it’s the old typical, Hey mate, how you going? Great. How’s business? Oh, doing really good. Come on, you fucking serious. You’re losing money. You’re going backwards. Your team shit, your culture’s not great. Your relationship with your wife’s not good. Now, that might not be one person, that might be a series of people, but isn’t it interesting, Dan, that the go-to throwaway comment for so many people is, how’s it going? Yeah, great. And it’s a fucking lie, isn’t it?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
It is. And it’s an accepted way of being. It’s that numbing ourselves to the facts. It’s our numbing ourselves from the pain or the fear or whatever it is. So there’s a real psychological and a neural reason why that we’ve developed that way. But for people that are driven and want to make change and want to make progress and are on that path, it doesn’t help. There’s got to come a time where we do lift the lid off, we do peel the bandaid back, and we do sit there and say, Hey, let’s cut the shit. Let’s get into this and let’s face some facts because unless we do that, nothing’s going to change. And you’ll continue to do what you’ve done, sweep it under the carpet, put it back in the cupboard, how you going? Fine, how’s work, busy, all those sort of things. And we know that it’s a facade, and as long as no one interrupts that, it’s almost like we’re all happy to walk over that lumpy carpet and just sort of play that game. So yeah, really, really powerful starting point for us as a principle.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Correct. And I admire people who have the courage to make a choice to make change. I really admire those people, and I’m a big believer that facing the facts is the cornerstone to taking the first step of change. Sure, you’ve got to be able to accept that you want to make change. That’s the first starting point. But acceptance of making change isn’t going to make the change a reality. It’s the ability to be able to go into there and face the facts, the good, the bad, and the ugly around things and have a real good look at the honest look in the mirror and have a conversation with yourself and stop lying, stop bullshitting. Stop pretending that things are great. We’ve all got issues. No one is issue free. You’ve got ’em, Dan, I’ve got ’em. We’ve all got challenges in our world, even to this date. But if you look at those people who go on and achieve amazing things, they’re constantly looking for ways to peel back the onion, face up to the things that are going on in their world, make the decision that they’re going to make a choice to make a change. And no matter how scary or what the repercussions are or whatever it is, they get in there and start taking those steps to make the change. And that’s what creates the transformational shift in people, isn’t it?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
It is. I like music as well. And this idea, I can’t remember who said it, I think I know, but I’m not going to misquote, but the idea that through the cracks is where the light comes in. And we’re so busy sometimes trying to paint over those cracks and make sure no one can see the cracks, that the light never comes in. But what we’ve really got to do in facing the facts is show those cracks for what they are, where the light comes in, the realisation happens, the light comes on, and all of a sudden we can get to work. There’s no doubt that that’s the starting point.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So let’s throw a bit of a challenge out to our listeners. Hey, Dan, and if you’re listening to this today, what I want you to be able to do is take a bit of time for yourself where you have a good hard look and a reflection in your own world right now, whether it’s around your business, around your health, around your wealth, around your connections. Look across what we call the four primary legacies, health, wealth, business, and connections, and have a really good hard look across your areas of life and almost have a bit of a look in the mirror and have some honest conversations around what’s not going so great right now? What has it got to change? What’s the impact on you and what is the cost if you do nothing? The real question is, if you do nothing, what’s it going to continue to cost you and what are you going to do about it? More importantly, first, we’ve got to face the facts around it, identify the cost and the implications, but what are we going to do about it? And we’re keen to hear some of these, aren’t we, Dan? And I think this is a great opportunity for the listeners to almost take a bit of quiet time, take a bit of reflection time, start being a bit honest with themselves and stop bullshitting themselves around what’s really going on in their world.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It is the confronting of those facts. It’s so worthwhile, and like we said, it’s going to be painful. It’s going to be a bit harsh, it’s going to feel not great, but just know that what you’re doing is setting yourself up with those conditions for success, those conditions to make progress, those conditions for change, or if you believe in it, those conditions for luck to show up.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, absolutely. Actually, Dan, before we move into success principle number two, I’ve just realised the time, we had a great conversation around this already, and what I’m thinking, I don’t know what your thoughts are, but what I’m thinking is we might actually cut it here and actually wrap this episode up, and that’s what that’s going to do is give the listeners the opportunity to be able to go away and be able to face the facts around some of their world and really just sit with this for the moment, do the exercise, reflect on it, have an honest conversation with them, and what we might actually do, I don’t know what your thoughts are here, but what we might actually do is come back to principle number two and three in another episode, and what that’s going to do is give our listeners a bit of a chance to take an action on this one. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Great call. And I think that’s really cool because what happens when people face the facts or when they’re confronted with the possibility of facing the facts, they look for distractions. So I think rather than distract people with the second and third on the next, on this one, let’s dive in on another episode and no excuses, guys. Get to work and face those facts for the minute.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
All right, awesome. Well, let’s make a bit of a change here. So from here, what you can do is let’s get in there and face those facts. But what you can also do is subscribe, hit the follow button, tell your mates about the Trade Den, and we’re going to come back to you in the next episode and talk to you a bit about principle number two and number three, which is all about never settling and making shit happen. Thanks for joining us today and looking forward to talking to you again soon.