Episode 40 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Good employees want to belong in an organisation that’s going places. Hi everyone. Rob Kropp here from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den podcast. How are you Dan? Good to have you back.

Speaker 2 (00:20):

I’m good, thanks, Rob. Yeah, good to be back. We are almost there with our three part series. How cool.

Speaker 1 (00:26):

Yeah. Hasn’t it been a great, just great topic, great series.

Speaker 2 (00:31):

It is. It’s such an important skill recruitment, being able to sort of just break it down into nice three episodes and some good steps to really get people in good shape to get the best results has been really cool. The feedback’s been awesome too, by the way.

Speaker 1 (00:46):

Yeah. If you haven’t listened to episode number one or two yet in this little series, make sure you jump into the show notes and gone back and listen to them or just click back in the app of whatever you are listening to, whether it’s Spotify or Apple. But it’s so important that our listeners do listen to them, isn’t it Dan?

Speaker 2 (01:09):

It is. I mean, we’re going to talk today around getting staff to stay, but you’ve got to be able to find staff in the first place. But even before that episode one of this three part series, what we talked about was making sure you understood the outcomes and getting strategic before you started rather than being reactionary. And I think, again, we’ll stress it again in this episode to say that if you can get the strategy and build your skills, you’re going to be able to call on them time and time again. This isn’t about how do you recruit once off to fill a once off gap or solve a crisis or something like that. It’s about giving you the foundational skills you need to be able to recruit, to be able to retain and be able to make sure you can repeat this process over and over again once you get the hangover. Because the more you do it, the better you get.

Speaker 1 (01:52):

Yeah, absolutely. And today what we’re going to be talking about is how do you keep your staff, because retention of staff is super important and have you ever considered the cost of losing great staff and not just in financial terms, in terms of replacing them in terms of seek ads and the recruitment process, but the cost in terms of lost billable time, lost productivity, reputational damage potentially. Have you considered that cost of what it takes to be able to lose someone and then go ahead and replace them? So in today’s market, retention is just as important as recruitment and that’s why this topic is so important in this little series.

Speaker 2 (02:41):

It is, and I think the knock ons of that, I mean the financial cost of going out and recruiting, there’s a cost attached to it, but the knock ons and the implications for cashflow, the implications on profitability for the way jobs run, like you said, even reputational damage and what that cost you that you probably even never know, but that next time you try and quote a job and you thought you were a Monty to win it and you don’t, it can be because of all this sort of stuff. So really getting this right has way bigger impacts than just sort of getting through what most people look at is just a hassle of doing business. It’s more than that. So in saying that when we talk about retention, most people start to think about perks and whatever else they can throw at people to help keep them stale, keep them happy, but it’s not enough just to throw barbecues on once a month, hope you guys stick around. It’s about creating that environment like we spoke about on the last episode, where people want to belong and grow with the organisation.

Speaker 1 (03:34):

So on today’s episode we’re going to talk about what is retention, why we want to retain great employees, but not everyone and what everyone thinks will fix their retention problem, but just cost them money and then discuss the shift in what employees are really looking for in today’s environment.

Speaker 2 (03:53):

Yeah, I like it. So let’s start off with the first point here and before we get into retaining, we want to make a distinction and that retention’s about keeping great people, but that doesn’t mean you keep everyone retention’s not about never having turnover and not having to recruit ever again. So good at retaining people. Common misconception is that companies should aim to retain all their employees, but not all retention is going to be beneficial, right?

Speaker 1 (04:18):

Yeah, this is the big one. It’s challenging that school of thought that you want to retain, retain at all costs, but I think the distinction there is you want to retain great people. Now if you do have disengaged or underperforming people, you’ve got to have the ability as a manager to be able to performance manage people out and release people from the organisation so they don’t become a bad apple. And the Apple card sometimes got to be cruel to be kind to let them go, to be able to make way for great employees to keep coming into the business and to be uphold the culture of high performance within your organisation. So when we talk about retention, it’s not let’s recruit them and hold onto everyone at all costs. We want to hold onto the right people and over time people will underperform, there’ll be a safety issue or a misconduct or whatever it is. You’ve got to be able to have the courage to let those people go and make way for even better people in the long term.

Speaker 2 (05:24):

In that sense, having some turnover is a good thing actually. You get new ideas, you get new ways of doing things, you can get people that come in with better skills if that’s what you’ve hired for. Going back to our objectives from the previous episodes, if you’re trying to hire for capability, you bring in the right person, guess what? You get a jump in your productivity or you get a jump from that experience that you get. So really making sure that you have got the right people, like you said. I like that Rob, talking about keeping the right people is what retention’s all about, but the way to evolve and keep growing as a business to stay fresh and making sure that culture is vibrant in the organisation is really a key. And that comes out of having the retention set the right way.

Speaker 1 (06:04):

I think what I really like about our team here at Pravar and you’re the operations head of operations and coaching here at Pravar is that over the last 10 years we have had a couple of coaches who have moved on. We’re not immune to people coming and going. We’ve actually got a really good retention within our team, but we have had a couple of people join the team and then move on to other ventures and other opportunities in their time. And we’ve seen it in our times where, yeah, it’s hard when that person moves on and then you’ve got to go back through the recruitment process. But with every new coach that we’ve brought on at some time, it’s brought new ideas, new energy, new ways of doing things, new vibe, new dynamics. It’s good to some degree, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (06:55):

It is. And I think that comes back to your attitude to it when someone decides to move on, whether it’s managed through and it’s that way or they’ve got to leave for personal reasons, whatever it might be. I think the big thing for me in my role as ops and what we do looking after the team here, whenever someone does that or we do have some turnover, it’s always an opportunity to get better. I’m channelling my Jocko willing sort of mindset, but it is that opportunity to say, good, we can go out and find someone better. Those little gaps we had, no one’s perfect, there’s no perfect employees. There’s just the next opportunity to round out or get that next thing you were missing or that next thing you need. So really that attitude of it’s an opportunity to get better even when someone does leave or you can’t retain someone, I think that’s a really good starting point. It sets you up to come back stronger and in a sense that’s the first step of retaining is that there’s progress within the organisation and the team you’ve got.

Speaker 1 (07:51):

Yeah, there’s almost two ends of the spectrum. The high turnover of employees, it’s the cost associated with the recruitment, it’s the downside, it’s the reputational damage, there’s the lack of continuity, it’s the constant training and developing and bringing new people on. That’s the downside of high turn.

(08:13):

The downside of low turn is stale, stagnant. We always do it around this way. No innovation, lack of new ideas and no injection of fresh energy. It just becomes like stale old water of a stale old team. And so you’ve got two ends of the spectrum of low turn and high turn. I think the secret to when it comes to retention is finding that midpoint at somewhere in the middle where you want to be able to keep your really good employees and retain them and create an environment where they want to belong. And then as you grow your business and you constantly evolve and make changes, you are always going to, that bottom layer is almost going to somewhat trim off the bottom and you’re just bringing new people in over a period of time. But I think it’s managing the retention in the medium term is the most important thing that we need to manage as an employer, don’t we?

Speaker 2 (09:11):

Yeah. The happy space where you’re looking for those benefits like you just outlined, the productivity, the consistency, the profitability in the business and the less time having to go through this process if you’re totally in reactionary mode guarantee you’ll do it over and over again, but you’re not getting any better as you do it. So I think really being able to understand that point that it’s not about keeping everyone, but it’s about keeping the great people and it’s about evolving and getting better every time you go through the process from the people that you get as well as the way you go about doing it. That’s another big part of this. In terms of the second one, I think the thing we want to talk about here, and it comes to retention, another one is this myth around higher pay equals higher retention. The more I pay, the more guys will hang around. Now I know you’d like to talk this one through with clients that give you that sort of sense. I’ll throw money at the market and everyone will either stay and I’ll avoid having to deal with all of this and the problem will just go away.

Speaker 1 (10:08):

Yeah. We saw this a lot over the last few years around, we spoke in last week’s episode around the difference between an employer and an employee market. The last few years have been an employee’s market and they’ve just been naming their price. And the problem is, is that when you’re in that market, employers pay way overs and they just keep paying more and more and more and more and more for people and it gets to that tipping point where it’s unsustainable because your labour costs just keep going up, but your charge out rates can’t keep going up in proportion to what you’re paying your people. So what happens is you crunch margin, your margin just starts to deteriorate and that’s big issue, but then it just comes off your bottom line. And then when the market does turn, which it always does by the way, you’re stuck paying way overs with people or you’re faced with that situation that paying more money to get someone in your door will be the very reason why they leave your door and go to someone else because they’ll get 50 cents or a dollar an extra. So if your strategy is, well, I’m just going to keep paying way more to attract more people and retain them, then A, it’s crunching your bottom line and B, it’s going to be the reason why you get them in the first place, but it’s going to be the reason why people leave you as well to go somewhere else. So it’s a real double-edged sword, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (11:50):

Yeah. You end up with that sort of band of mercenaries that’ll come in and out, whoever’s paying top dollar, and there’s definitely that band of people around and you can’t avoid that. The idea is trying to recruit around it but not perpetuating it, like you said, not growing into that and causing it to continue. I think when we look at it, I mean the ABS, the Australian Bureau of Statistics puts it about 63% of employees rank their pay and benefits as the most important factor when they’re considering moving a job. Now, 63% sounds high, but you think about that there’s still, what’s that 37% of people that aren’t motivated by that? And if you are looking for great people, you’re not talking about the majority, you’re looking for the very best people you can find 37% leaves a pretty big gap in terms of people that are still out there looking for whatever else it might be, whether it’s work-life, balance, culture, the ability to improve or grow their careers.

Speaker 1 (12:49):

Yeah, it’s in today’s market where cost of living is definitely going up. It’s one of those things where people are feeling the pinch and a lot of people of their mortgages have gone up, the cost of groceries and sending kids to school and electricity and everything. The cost of living has everyone’s feeling the pinch of cost of living. So naturally that becomes a motivator for what people are looking for when it comes from their employer. But money only goes so far. If you hate your job, you hate your work, you hate the people you are working with or you’re sitting in under bad management, there’s only so long you can put up with that and put up with good money when you’re experiencing all that other shit going on in your world. And so in today’s marketplace, yes, people want to be paid well and remunerated well for what they do, but more people are looking for work-life balance and an employer that has supportive, flexible, purpose driven environments where people actually want to belong and go to work and enjoy what they do, not just turn up for a pay pack and say, yes, pay is important, but it’s not always the driving factor for what retains people.

(14:14):

It’s you’ve got to pay them well, but if you create a great environment, people will stick around because they want to belong as human beings, we naturally at our core want to belong, don’t we?

Speaker 2 (14:25):

Yeah. I think that idea that if we can grow and if we’re growing and contributing in our roles as employees, then that’s a huge driver of retention. The ability to understand that I’m going to grow and I’m going to be developing, there’s going to be progress in my world that will outstrip for at least 37% if we go back to that number, that’s going to be at least if not way more important to those high performing people that have got a real sense of purpose. They’re looking to work in a place like them where meaning and balance is way more than financial compensation. And I think where you say you’ve got to pay them, well, I think the types of people we’re looking to attract and retain, they just don’t want to be underpaid. Do you know what I mean? They don’t want to be underpaid or taken advantage of in terms of backs to the wall and you’ve got to accept this position no matter what.

(15:15):

So I think being paid well really is being paid fairly or not being underpaid. I think that’s when you really run into troubles as well. So when we look at it and we sort of start talking about meaning and balance again, the idea, and it sort of comes out of the tech world where it’s all ping pong tables and weird lunches and things like that. And I’ve been in that, well, trust me, but that’s not what we’re talking about with retention. So in our world we go through this a lot and we’re trying to help our clients get to a point where they are retaining good people and hopefully striking this idea of being supportive, flexible, and purpose driven. So examples of this that we’ve seen with clients, what comes to your mind when we think about that?

Speaker 1 (16:00):

The first example I can think of is Mark and Scott who run a plumbing business in North Shore, Sydney. And when you’re in North Shore, Sydney, the reason why people move to Northern Beaches is because it’s lifestyle. They love the beach, they love surfing, they love their camping, they love that lifestyle environment. You move there for the lifestyle. And so what these Mark and Scott did a cracking job is they moved their business to a four day roster with their team and they worked still a full-time role, still a 40 hour week, but they did it over four days, a four and three roster, and that worked really well. Now are they going to attract a plumber who is on EBA, going to work in the tunnels and work over time and get big money and never see their family? Absolutely not. They’re not targeting that person.

(16:59):

But that was their point of differentiation in their recruitment process, to stand out in the noisy recruitment marketplace to be able to go, this is who we are, we work on high end construction. These are the types of builders that we work for. This is the market, this is the environment, these are all the value adds that we do for our employees. By the way, you get a four and three roster and this is how you get to enjoy life whilst getting paid really well and get all these perks as well. And that just separated them in the marketplace. It blended nicely with the whole northern beaches environment in Sydney and they were able to attract great tradesmen and apprentices in a tough marketplace and retain them. They kept the good guys because they created an environment where not only could they attract but retain good people for the long term, which was amazing.

Speaker 2 (17:53):

Yeah, they found people that valued lifestyle, like you said, above just straight up dollars in a bank account. So that was what they targeted, that’s what they found. I think you’ve made a good point there where you said that they found good apprentices and tradesmen for doing that. And if you come back to our, when you put your focus into recruitment, you think about that and you say, that’s great, love it. And that really works well if they were to hire for experience. So now putting some of what we’ve learned the last few weeks together, maybe it’s not lifestyle or that day, go to the beach and surf because more experienced people may be a bit older with families and things like that, they’re not going to be going, well, the beach to me is not that important. I’m looking for something more than money, but at the same time I need something for family. So for me, what is it that the next logical question is as you go through this, that’s a great thing for someone that values that, but people in more experienced roles, there’s another way of doing it.

Speaker 1 (18:52):

Other examples with what clients have done is they put a real emphasis on no overtime and a big emphasis on family and lifestyle. And so they’re naturally going to attract and retain good people who don’t want to work overtime because if they’ve got a young family, they don’t want to be getting called out on a Friday night at 10:00 PM They don’t want that. And so there are other businesses who might run big teams with young guys and they’re happy getting overtime and doing call outs and all those types of things go for it. But some of our clients have had great success where they’ve had a little to no overtime policy and they’ve put a big emphasis on family and lifestyle and that’s what’s not only helped them attract good people, but it’s been a great retention tool and they might pay a little bit less, but that’s what that employee values.

(19:48):

And so there’s a match between employment conditions and the values of the employee. And when those values are aligned, that’s what makes a good attraction and retention model. If you then start rolling out doing overtime and call out fees, and by the way we’re doing this disconnection of values, they will leave and go to someone who do seek out their value. So the key to this retention thing is being really aware of, well, who are we as an organisation? What are our values? Who are we? What makes us tick? And then how do we attract and stay true to those values, which goes a long way in our retention of our people, and that’s the secret to holding good people in the long term.

Speaker 2 (20:40):

Yeah, totally agree. And this is tying it back in again as we’re in part three here. Again, tie that back into the outcome. What are you looking for? Who do you need in part two? You get that right? How do I retain those people once I finally find them? Hallelujah, we’ve got them great. How do I keep them? You’ve got to align your values to what you’re offering as part of your retention strategy and stay consistent like you just said. What about the next one as an example, bonuses and benefits. What do you see there and how do you like to think about this and how do you coach guys on bonuses and benefits?

Speaker 1 (21:12):

I’ll put a caveat around this if I can.

Speaker 2 (21:15):

Please do. Because if you don’t, I’m going to.

Speaker 1 (21:18):

Make sure you talk to your accountant before you consider any bonuses, benefits or anything like that from an impact on profitability, but also a fringe benefits tax and all those types of things. So please make sure you take that into consideration. But nothing wrong with things like gym memberships, access to vehicles, potential bonuses and all those types of things for employees. Even just doing little things that go a long way. I know our recent episode with Simon Parker where he’s like, one thing that I wanted to be able to create was a happy environment and help people out, and he had a couple of vehicles sitting around. He knew one of his employees was doing it tough. He just let them lend a vehicle for a little while to help them get back on their feet. Like little things like that go a long way in creating loyalty and longevity in employment relationships. So it’s all just those little things that just go a long way, don’t they?

Speaker 2 (22:22):

Yeah. It’s that idea about creating an environment where people want to belong and they want to stay, they’re suppose happy to be there and they want to stay there. They don’t want that to go away and they’ll happily be there. So I think that’s great and yes, please do talk to your accountant about that if you need to. Most importantly, what about, and we sort of touched on this, which is the happiness, the job satisfaction, but that idea that people do, they will actually give up potential earnings for that lifestyle. All they will give up that potential earnings for the family life or the hours with the kids, the ability to go to the sporting events on a weekend or on a Friday night. If it’s coming into where we are now in summer, it’s cricket time, cricket season, Friday night, be unable to do that stuff. People want to be able to look after that side more and more, and I think we can’t underestimate that as part of retention and a real cornerstone of it as opposed to just pay them more money and they’ll stick around longer.

Speaker 1 (23:24):

Yeah, job satisfaction’s huge. And I think about it internally here at Pravar Group, the whole, what we do really well with our team is created an environment where they want to belong. They feel satisfied and fulfilled in the work that they do, and they get remunerated well for the role they do. It’s the trifecta could, the coaches that we hire are all GM level coaches or they’ve owned their own business and they work full-time for Pravar Group, so we don’t run a contractor model. We were having full-time employees. We could some of those guys go out and earn an extra a hundred grand a year having a highly stressful CEO position. Absolutely they could. But that comes with it with probably working double the hours that they work. We work a four and three working week, they get additional time off throughout the year around client events, and they are extremely fulfilled in what they do.

(24:28):

And we have really good training and development programmes. So we’ve got the holy grail when it comes to really looking after our team, and that’s why we’ve got good retention with our team and why people want to work at Pravar Group. We look after them well and we expect a lot, but we look after them well. And so I think all those things go a long way in retaining good people. And this just proves that money isn’t everything because people can always go and earn more, but sometimes more money comes at a cost, doesn’t it?

Speaker 2 (25:07):

Yeah, absolutely. There’s always a trade off. There’s always a trade off and you do this long enough, you start to see what those trade-offs are and you start looking for other things. So those first two points, I think you’re absolutely hit it on the head. It’s what we live and breathe and it’s the key parts of our attention. I think there’s a third part though, and that is having someone go through the process of choosing to work at a place. And what I mean by that is if you are just offering money and it just becomes a straight up paying the most, it’s a really simple, low transactional type of choice. There’s no real choice, it’s just paying the highest. That’s all I’ve got to consider. When you force someone to make that choice and you do it well, and we’ve talked about a few examples so far in the series, but when you do it well, you’re making it a real choice. You’re showing them what those costs and benefits are, but beyond that, you’re using probably what we’d say is three things, vision, value and growth. And being able to show that each of those things makes it a real choice, it makes it, I’ve got options here. I’ve got to consider this as a proper choice that I’m making.

Speaker 1 (26:10):

Yeah, it’s so true. It’s good. Employees want to belong in an organisation that’s going places. And you think about that with a football team, for example, like the Panthers just won four series in a row as premiers. Who wouldn’t want to work? Who wouldn’t want to play for the Panthers? Who’d want to sign a big deal with someone on the bottom of the ladder who wants to play for a losing club? Good players want to play for a winning club with the best chance to win a premiership. That’s what they want to do. And business is no different. Great employees want to belong to an organisation that’s going places and that’s winning. And part of that is for your ability as the owner to be able to have a vision to begin with. And then it’s your ability to be able to articulate that vision as best as you could, best as you can somewhat through your employees sharing the good news and also on your socials and everything market facing to be able to go, Hey, this is who we are.

(27:29):

This is the work that we do. This is the pride that we have in what we do, and this is the culture that we’ve got. And this is a little peep into what it’s like to come and work here, come and join us. And then the prospective employee gets a bit of insight into what it’s like to be able to belong in this organisation. And then they’re like, right, I want to go there. I want to work there. And when I’m there, then you create that environment around with them where they become sticky and want to stay, and that’s how recruitment and retention go hand in hand. You’ve first got to get them in, then you’ve got to treat them so well that they never want to leave. And that’s the secret for retention and recruitment working together.

Speaker 2 (28:18):

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s that choice coming out. You can’t help, but I’ve got a real choice to make here. Do I want this or do I not want this? And when you talk about there’s a trade off against pay, that’s when it comes, right? It’s like, all right, a little bit less money, but it’s still fair and reasonable. Geez, this is what I want. This is really the choice I want to make. So that’s really important when we talk about that and they’re in then and you’ve got these great employees on board, the vision’s in, you’ve got them locked in and it is down to really retaining them. We’ve got all the rest is locked away. I think the next thing is what we’d look for and what we coach clients on is about making sure that employees feel heard, they feel valued and they feel appreciated.

(29:01):

And I think that comes down if we’re going to bucket all that up, it’s around sort of honesty with employees and making sure that there’s the ability to create a shared honest version of how it is to be around here. It’s not all just one way. It’s not the owner’s view of the world and it’s, what I say goes, that’s a horrible way to be, but it’s a real sense of a joint ownership of what we’ve created together. And that comes through feeling like you’re heard, valued and appreciated from mine. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (29:28):

Yeah, it’s one of those elements where they feel like they belong as part of the team. They feel like they do belong and they’ve got something to contribute.

(29:40):

And we see this a lot with clients where they bring in great people and then the owners got the ability to be able to be open to new ideas and new ways of doing things and getting feedback from their team and making changes and go, oh, great, so we’re not doing that great on site. Great, let’s get in there and fix that at the operational level. And not having that mindset of, well, this is how we’ve always done things around here. It’s going, okay, well give us feedback. What can we do better? What can we change? What can we improve? And if your employees feel heard that way and you are making changes for the better and making improvements and wanting to improve, then they’ll want to come on the journey as well. And the more that everyone works together to make the environment better, then that’s what makes people sticky and they want to stick around is they feel like they’re progressing just like the businesses progressing as well.

Speaker 2 (30:35):

Yeah, I think the one thing that all great employees and you think back to the great people you work with, they’re ambitious and there’s nothing wrong with that. I think you’ve got to have that ambition that want to improve, that desire to be part of something that’s going somewhere. Like you said, I think one of the big ways of being able to do that then becomes, and this is sort of where I think a fear comes in that I’d like to tackle last is so many business owners get scared of developing their team. It’s almost like we’ve got to keep it. They can’t be too great because what happens if they’re too great, they’re going to leave and if they leave then I’m going to be without my team, so can’t train ’em up too much. And I think that goes against everything in my mind about what a great employee wants. The employees that are trying to fly under the radar, the ones that have probably got lower standards, they don’t want training because that means they’re going to be found out or there’s a spotlight shined on them. The ones that are looking for training and wanting to develop and grow are the ones that you do need to nurture and you need to put that time in.

Speaker 1 (31:36):

Yeah, there’s a quote by Richard Branson that says, train them so well that they could leave, treat them so well that they don’t. And I love that quote because you train them really, really well because the benefit is you get the very best employee showing up week in, week out as the best version of themselves. They’re happy, they’re looking for opportunities, they want to drive change. They’re probably on job sites looking for upsell opportunities or looking for variations. And customer satisfaction goes through the roof. They do things quicker and safer, and so productivity goes up. So not only do you get the best person there and then by training them, but the second part of that equation is just treat them so well. Like good employees leave bad bosses. That’s the truth. And so if you create an environment where you treat them really well, don’t pander to them, don’t walk around eggshells with them as it’s like, fuck, I don’t want them to leave. You’ve got to create an environment where you are grateful for them and they’re grateful for you for the opportunity. If you create that shared environment where they feel like they belong and you’re grateful for the contribution they make, that’s what it means to treat them so they don’t leave, then you get the best of both worlds. A great employee who’s upskilled performs their best and they stick around, everyone wins in the process don’t they?

Speaker 2 (33:10):

They do. And I think if you’ve got that fear as you’re listening to this and you think, well, hang on, I think this is where I might’ve tripped up, really explore that because the other knock on, not only do you retain good people, you get better at training guys. So the knock on when something does go sideways, you might have an employee leave or something happens, that means the team’s going to be disrupted, your ability to pick up again or train the next person in line is there. You’ve got it on tap. You’re getting better at this as you go. You’re getting better at the recruiting process as you go. This becomes less daunting and less of a hassle. So really a big question is what are you doing to train and develop your ground crew and have scope for career development within your organisation, stepping people up to leading hand roles if they’ve come in even from apprenticeships. Some of the guys that we’ve had have done amazing jobs of guys that have stayed with them, they’ve been able to get their retention right to the point that there’s almost like a pipeline of people that come through. They can anticipate the life cycle of an employee as they go through this journey with the organisation as the business grows.

Speaker 1 (34:11):

Yeah, a great example of this is episode 13 that we did with Nathan Wilson from Rescue Plumbing. He runs a cracking business. And if you think about the people that he’s got in his operational team right now have all come out of the field, they’ve been all in his ground crew. Matt, who’s his operations manager was an apprentice. He was Nathan’s apprentice tradesman operations manager. He’s got two guys. One is a junior operations manager, came from a tradesman into a junior operations manager, and then he’s got another guy. His estimator has come from the field into estimation as well. So what Nathan has done has brought on good apprentices, brought them through the ranks into good tradesmen, and then brought those good tradesmen into the office. So he is creating great succession planning through the business, promotional opportunities, career paths for his guys. And yes, over time he has had to bring in tradesmen who he hasn’t brought through the system, the RUP system.

(35:22):

But I know talking to Nathan, the very best tradesman that he and employees that he’s got have all come through the ranks. And that’s the benefit of growing a business is you get to breed from within and develop people and have a long-term horizon around where you’re going going. You just build this great culture over a longer period of time. And if you provide opportunities for people where they can see that they’ve got the ability to progress and make more money and learn new skills and develop their career, then that’s what’s going to make them want to stick around for a long period of time. So awesome episode in episode 13, if you haven’t listened to it already.

Speaker 2 (35:58):

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I think the other thing we’re sort of hitting on, and as you listen to this, hopefully you’re joining the dots, is that great retention is great attraction as well. The better you are at retention, the more attractive you’ll be as an employer. The more you can attract, the better people, the easier it is to retain. So this isn’t pick which part of this series you want to do, it’s not I’m going to get really good at recruiting on the front end. You’ve got to be good at all of it because the better you do get, the more it sort of feeds itself and not the easier it becomes. But I think the more productive and the better results you get really is the message out of all of it.

Speaker 1 (36:36):

Yeah, it’s almost like if you can’t find good people, it’s probably because you haven’t designed it well in the first place. If you can’t hold onto good people, it’s either you’re attracting the wrong people or your attention’s wrong. And if you can’t retain people, then you’re just going to be constantly in recruit and remote the whole time. That’s why we’ve had to do a three part series around this, right? They all just go hand in hand together don’t they?

Speaker 2 (36:59):

They do. And I think listening to this, go back and listen again because pick things up from the first episode. Now having heard the third where it’s like that makes perfect sense where it might’ve been a bit confronting in the beginning, you’ll join those dots and come back to this series as often as you need to get that refresher and be sharp with your recruiting. Always be recruiting, as we said, but recruiting is not just that moment where you’re trying to bring someone new in. It’s the retention piece like we’ve talked about today. I’m keen to get your thoughts, Rob, on the series just as a bit of a wrap up as we close it down. But before we do, summary of key takeaways. What have you got out of retention today and the conversation we’ve had?

Speaker 1 (37:36):

There’s three big takeaways from today. And number one is good employees leave bad bosses. It’s a big one.

Speaker 2 (37:42):

Not true.

Speaker 1 (37:43):

I say to clients all the time is that the fish rots from the head down. And what I mean by that is, is that everything starts and stops with you. And if you are not showing up as a great leader and great manager, then you are absolutely going to churn people all day long. So number one, good employees leave bad bosses. Number two is focusing and developing and wellbeing. Sorry, focus on development and wellbeing ahead of short term perks and pay rises. Yes, it’s good to be able to give people bonuses of things along the way, but they’re like a little sugar hit. You’re better off having good entitlements and create a place where people want to belong, what people remember. And number three, culture is everything. I can’t say enough that you got to create an environment where people want to belong. That’s culture.

(38:38):

And if you get that right, people won’t want to leave because people want to stay in an environment where they feel safe, they feel secure, and they love being there, and they get paid well to do a job that they absolutely love. It’s not about tiptoeing around your employees or not holding them accountable. You’ve still got to be a great manager, have high expectations and manage them well. But if you create a great environment and not just ping pong tables and all those and be on a Friday, that’s why people want to belong. So if you can get those three things right and the three hit points out of today’s episode, that’s what’s going to help you firm up your retention for people that you want to be able to keep in your organisation.

Speaker 2 (39:24):

Yeah, absolutely. I think a good call to action then out of that, having heard you summarise it so well, there is that. Take a moment and just reflect as we round this out, two questions I’ve got for you. One is, would you want to come and work for you as things stand in your organisation right now? Would you want to come and work for you? That’s sort of the first question. Secondly, if you already worked for you, would you want to hang around or would you be probably looking for somewhere else to go? And that’ll give you a nice little gut feel in terms of how am I going with my recruitment, my attention? Where do I need to start? And hopefully give you that kick in the butt that you might need to start taking some of this more seriously. And it’s not that you are the only one that doesn’t take it seriously. We see it across the board, but until you do, you can always hope to have a better business like a Nathan from RUP or whatever it is. But one of the key factors of success, and go back and listen to it, you will hear it. The amount of time and effort, the investment he’s made in his people and his recruitment process and his retention, it can’t be understated. And the minute you get that nugget and you take this seriously, that’s when you’re going to see your business unlock to a whole new level.

Speaker 1 (40:37):

I love this series that we’ve done because without a great team, you don’t have a business and your ability to attract and retain great people is the difference is what makes all the difference in the end of the day. Because without a great team, you have nothing. And so team is such an important part in your journey. It’s the hardest part because you’re dealing with the biggest variable around which are human beings, but it’s the most rewarding part because you create an environment and a home and a family where people want to belong. And when you get it right, it’s so rewarding in the end of the day. And that’s when the rewards come because you get an environment where people are happy, they’re healthy, they love it, you’ve got a great culture, you’ve got a vision, you’re on the same page, and you want to go and achieve great things together.

(41:43):

That’s the best part about business. And you get to have a team where you enjoy the journey together and you do good work together, and that’s the magic of business. But it all starts with you as the owner in creating an environment where people actually want to belong to that. So hopefully you’ve enjoyed this little three-part series. It’s been an absolute belter. We’d love to hear your feedback. So please join us in The Trade Den Facebook, let us know what you’ve taken away from this series, and please leave us a little review on your favourite app to be able to tell us what you’ve enjoyed the most and also share it with your mates because we know that so many business owners struggle to hire and retain great people. So please share it with one of your mates to be able to spread the good news, and we collectively can all run great businesses together. Thanks for tuning in over the last couple of weeks and looking forward to coming back to you next week.

Speaker 2 (42:38):

Catch you soon.