Episode 62 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Building your business is important. There’s no doubt about that, but you just got to remember, it’s there as a vehicle to enrich your family life, not be built at the expense of it. Hi everyone. Rob Kropp and Dan Stones from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den, good to have you back, Dan. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:24):

Good to be back. Thank you, Rob. Yeah, very well, thank you. Looking forward to today’s episode and today we’re going to dive into two extremes that can really wreak havoc on your relationship when it comes to talking business at home. I think this is one that we like to teach, but it’s probably one that we’ve learned a lot of lessons ourselves in terms of being business owners, maybe workaholics a little bit the after hour stuff. So yeah, looking forward to this one. On one side you’re going to have a thing we’re going to call the withdrawal reflex, which is shutting down, avoiding business conversations, keeping everything bottled up until your partner feels like they’re completely out of the loop and totally disconnected. On the other end of the spectrum, there’s the open all hour syndrome. This is where the business talk is constant. It’s relentless. You can’t escape it. It’s in every dinner conversation, car rides, quiet moments, just sitting around in front of the TV, whatever it is you’re doing, they all turn into these business conversations, be they rants, just ideas that are floating through your mind, whatever it might be.

Speaker 1 (01:26):

Yeah, I’ve been guilty of both of these, so looking forward to unpacking them in today’s episode and talking through the common mistakes, but definitely some of the solutions that might be available so we can find the balance in the middle. I think that’s important out of today.

Speaker 2 (01:43):

It is, and these two that we’re introducing today, there’s really so many coaching conversations around this centre on either end of the extremes. There’s a lot in the middle that happens and there’s a few things we’ll talk about, but these are the two that we probably want to tackle first because it’ll knock out a lot of the challenges and the frustrations that are going on. We know from just experience of coaching so many guys through these challenges. So the first trap we’re going to talk about is the withdrawal reflex. This is all about, we’ve all done it, I’m sure, but all about sweeping challenges and things under the carpet.

Speaker 1 (02:17):

Yeah, this is a huge one. As you know, the business has its challenges, it’s hard, it’s stressful at any given time in any phase of your journey in business and naturally as blokes we’re notorious for bottling things up, not talking about issues that are going on in our world, and it’s almost somewhat like we don’t want to feel like we’re a burden on our partner by sharing these things. So this whole withdrawal reflex is really living up in our heads, bottling up the stresses and just not communicating to our partners around what’s really going on in our worlds due to the natural stresses that are associated with running a business

Speaker 2 (03:02):

And you end up creating distance and that just separation grows. It gets quieter and quieter. The pile under the carpet, as I said, it just keeps getting bigger. It rarely goes away by withdrawing, and I think there’s another thing Rob with that is worse than that is your partner who’s on the other end of it is probably sitting there thinking that you don’t trust them or you don’t value their input and that’s a big one that erodes a lot of, let’s call it relationship capital.

Speaker 1 (03:31):

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s not that you don’t trust them, it’s for most guys in the trade space, they don’t want to burden them with what’s going on, so it’s not that they don’t trust them with what’s happening, it’s just that they don’t want to burden them with the cashflow problems. They don’t want to burden them with, Hey, we’ve just got a whole three months pipeline decimated as a job got pushed out. Or they don’t want to burden them with something that’s going on with the team leaving or whatever it is because the business is really there as a vehicle to be able to provide for the family and if there’s all these stresses associated with this business that’s happening, it’s almost like, Hey, I don’t want to talk about it because I don’t want to freak you out or I don’t want to burden you with thinking that something might be worse than it actually is.

Speaker 2 (04:22):

Yeah, the intention’s positive, but the outcome rarely is if you go down this strategy. So what can we do then? If you like the fix, how do you approach this and how have you overcome this maybe in your own experience?

Speaker 1 (04:36):

I think there’s a couple of things. The first one is just small intentional and updates, and it’s about just constant conversation and communication around what’s happening rather than going through moments of bottling things up and then just, I like to call it verbal diarrhoea onto your partner around what’s going on. So good constant communication around the good, the bad, and the ugly. It’s easier said than done, but good constant communication is the key to be able to just keep talking about the issues as they arise and even celebrating the winds along the way is really important to share with your life partner.

Speaker 2 (05:17):

Is there a way you can think that you’d use this for? And I think it’s important, you just touched on it, then there’s good news, there’s bad news, all kinds of news. Is there a way to do this that’s different between the two? Otherwise we can keep talking and inadvertently we fall into this trap anyway. So how do you navigate it, be it good news or bad news for instance?

Speaker 1 (05:34):

Yeah, with good news it’s about when something great happens, tell your partner that and celebrate that. It doesn’t mean you have to go and knock over a bottle of wine and go out to a nice dinner every time something amazing happens, but it’s your ability to be able to go, Hey, such and such happened today. We won a big contract or we landed a great job, or Hey, we just got that recruit that we were being looking for the last couple of months. So I think it’s about just sharing the positive things that are going on in the business and talking about things because business is a big part of our lives as business owners, and so it’s important that we share those moments with our life partners, especially if they don’t work in the business so that they can celebrate the good times with you and enjoy this thing called business and life with you along the journey.

Speaker 2 (06:23):

And I think in avoiding the withdrawal, if you’re someone listening to this and you are, let’s call it a withdrawer and that’s your default and you’ve got some good news to share, how do you do that and bring it out in a way that it just doesn’t turn into the diarrhoea? The thing that you said, it’s like, Hey, a big thing happened today, want to hear about it? Just the fact that you’ve mentioned that sentence that way you’ve already shared that something good’s happened. Now depending on their situation, what they’re doing and what we want to do is acknowledge your partner’s role in all of this, bringing them into a conversation rather than smacking ’em in the face with a conversation. So that idea about, hey, want to hear about it, they might, they might not yet, whatever it is, but you’ve shared, you’ve brought that out in the open and you haven’t withdrawn from any situations. What about a negative one? What would you do if you’ve got some, I don’t know, let’s call it challenging news that you wanted to share at home? What’s your go-to in terms of the not so good news?

Speaker 1 (07:17):

Yeah, I think it’s about sharing things that are going on, but you’ve got to be mindful of what you share and how much you share. And I know that sounds a little bit funny, but if cashflow is really, really tight at the moment and you’ve got an ATO payment plan and you’re living in your overdraft, you might just want to let your partner know that you’re experiencing some challenges of the business and cash is tight at the moment because what it does is give them a little bit of context around why you might be stressed, why are you working longer hours, why you might be a little bit snappy, or the kids are walking around on eggshells around you. It gives them some context around what’s happening. Now at some point you’ve probably got to talk about the reality of the situation if things are ugly, and that’s the level that you eventually should be getting to with your loving partner anyway. But I think it’s about just giving them the heads up of what’s happening so that they understand and they can talk you through it and be there to support you through some of these challenging moments rather than you feeling like you’ve got to be the hero and got to save the day all the time.

Speaker 2 (08:24):

Yeah, so many conversations I can think back on with clients around getting them to have that initial conversation and the feedback almost invariably comes, geez, it went way better than I thought the support was there. Your partner’s there, they love you. They’ve made that commitment. You’re together through this, the highs and the lows. So I think remembering that as your starting point, it makes it easy to get into those sort of conversations, which is really good. So I think the withdrawal reflex is something we all do, but we’ve got to try and come up with these ways to combat it and still lean in I think is the message we’re trying to give there.

Speaker 1 (09:00):

Yeah, absolutely. I know I’ve been there in business over the last 15 years of business and for 10 of them I’ve been with Jacqui. There’s times where I’ve been through some really, really stressful times and there’s been times where I haven’t dealt with this situation well, I’ll be the first to put my hand up, and what I’ve found is the more I withdrew from the conversations, the harder it actually became because wasn’t there to able to lean on her, she wasn’t there to be able to support me. Then when I finally got out of my own head and actually spoke up around what was really going on, as you said, Jac was there to be, I go, well, how can I help? What can I do to support you? And I understand why you’re feeling that way now. So I think I’ve been definitely guilty of this and we all have as business owners, and so I think it’s just being mindful of when we do withdraw and working through these situations so that we can ride the rollercoaster that is business together rather than feeling like you’ve got to shield your partner from what’s really going on.

Speaker 2 (10:05):

I love it. All right. Now, it’s not that everyone just shields that we’ve got this other end of the spectrum that we’re going to talk about. Let’s get into trap two. Let’s call this the open all hours syndrome. So if you want to give me your best definition of the open all hours syndrome and the mistakes that I’ll say people make, you might be talking from experience, I’ll leave that to you, but off you go.

Speaker 1 (10:28):

I am a bit guilty of this one.

Speaker 2 (10:31):

We should have got Jac on. That’s what we should have done. Get Jacqui in the room.

Speaker 1 (10:36):

And this is for us business owners who just love living and breathing our business, and we struggle to be able to create boundaries in our world where we come home fired up around something’s going on, maybe it’s a negative thing, we’re fired up around a client drama or a bit of a cashflow thing, or we come home absolutely pumped up because we’ve just landed a big opportunity. But it’s that thing where you just dump it all on your partner without warning and it’s just like, whoa, this is going on in my world. And it’s just like boom. You hit them with it all at once and yeah, sometimes it doesn’t go down so well.

Speaker 2 (11:14):

Yeah, and for you, you’re right. For you, it’s just part of your world. It’s on, it’s there. You could reach out and touch it. That’s how current and appropriate it is in your world in the context of what you are living with. But you’re right, if you dump it all on your partner, it can feel like that just it’s unexpected. It’s an attack, it’s an ambush. It’s like, Hey, what the hell’s going on? It’s like that fire hose of stress. So I think that’s what we’re trying to do here is get out of this open all hours. And even if it’s not when you come home, it could be at night, like we said, you could have had a couple hours off and then out of the blue bang, you’ve been thinking about something to yourself in your little head figuring it all out. The ideas happened, it’s how good’s this, I think I fixed it and we blurred out almost mid-sentence of what we were thinking with, and then it becomes this thing that overtakes a nice evening, a dinner or whatever it could be.

Speaker 1 (12:03):

Yeah, absolutely. So there’s probably a couple of fixes here, and this is just reminding ourselves around these, the first fix is about asking for permission. How do we go about asking for permission around these situations?

Speaker 2 (12:19):

Yeah. Again, I think it’s just breaching the topic before you just get right into it. I think it’s, Hey, I had a crazy day. Can I just share with you for 10 minutes what it is? I think that asking for permission, it’s such a big thing. Your partner will acknowledge it. Usually they’re pretty honest about it. I know mine is, if I’ve got things going on and I mention it, I know if I can do it or not, if the permission’s there or not and it’s accepting what that is, maybe later, whatever it could be that comes back. But just the fact that you’ve asked for that permission will go a long way to, like you said, help build the relationship, help keep things tightened together at home rather than build in separation, resentment, whatever happens when you get into these positions and you’re just venting or carrying on for hours at a time if it takes that to get through what you want to process it.

Speaker 1 (13:07):

The second one is be clear on what you need because sometimes we don’t always just want advice, so how can we almost communicate what we actually need or are looking for in this situation?

Speaker 2 (13:20):

Yeah, I think what you need out of the conversation, there’s nothing worse. We’ve all been in that position where someone just starts talking and you’re like, where are we going with this? Why am I listening? Is this important? I know I need to show, I’ve got other things to, there’s no way you can prioritise where it’s at if you just go straight in hell for leather. So I think being able to set it up and being clear on what you need, Hey, I just need you to listen. Hey, I value your opinion. I’d love to get your advice on this. Hey, can I just share something? I’m working it through, it shouldn’t take long. All of those sort of things set up the expectations for the conversation and it gives you a chance to come back to it or more likely your partner to come back to it and go, Hey, I thought this wasn’t going to take long. As opposed to you get into it, you’ve blurted all over them. They’re like, how long is this going to take? As they’re half tapping their watch, looking at the times and going, Hey, what’s going on here? Because they’ve been hijacked. So I think being clear about what you’re after, it’s a really good strategy. It’s probably a hard one to do, but with practise it’s really, really valuable.

Speaker 1 (14:14):

Sometimes in business you just need to talk to someone and it’s like when you see one of your mates struggling, it’s just being there to support them. And sometimes you don’t want advice, you just want someone to chat to. And so being able to just say, Hey, I just need to talk something through, can I grab a bit of time? It’s important just to be able to chat through sometimes some things, sometimes without feeling like they have to give you advice around what they think you should be doing.

Speaker 2 (14:43):

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then the last one we’ve got is reading the room. This is a big one, I think, and this is probably the easiest I think about it because it doesn’t involve anyone else. You’re not in the conversation, you’re not trying to talk and think at the same time reading the room. It’s a simple strategy, but it works really, really well.

Speaker 1 (15:02):

Yeah, this is the one that I probably probably can do better from time to time. And I know I love business and I love talking business, and it’s a big priority of mine. There’s times where it’s, I know the night before Jac’s had a rough night with the kids, for example, and then it’s been a long day with our three young kitties, and then here I am at 6:30 when it’s witching hour of dinner and bed and bath time and I’m trying to chat about something and she’s like, Rob, what are you doing? You serious? We’re talking about this now. And so there’s an example where I’m trying to talk about something because topical for me, it’s priority for me and I just want to chat it through, but I haven’t read the room well. And so I think in that scenario, if I can get better and if you can get better at reading the room, it’s going to land better because then you can pick your timing and pick your battles to talk through things rather than just talking about it right there on your mind.

Speaker 2 (16:08):

Yeah, for sure. And that’s why it’s part of the open all hours syndrome, right? It’s about trying to get some designated time, some mindful time, I think you said on the first trap that we talked about. So really, really important.

Speaker 1 (16:18):

Other times have been late at night where it’s like 8:30 on the couch or 9 o’clock and you start talking about something, and I’ve been guilty of this where Jac’s like, right Rob, it’s 8:30 or 9 and I don’t want to be talking about that right now. It’s like, cool, no worries. And that’s just an example where I haven’t read the room. So I think to be able to do that, it’s about set setting better boundaries, reading the room better, and picking the timings of your conversation so that you can have a far more positive conversation around it rather than picking the wrong timing, which may not land well.

Speaker 2 (16:54):

Yeah, before we get to the bottom line, let’s talk. I think that let’s definitely a future episode from my mind around setting, creating those boundaries. How do you get that integration, that business life stuff? So I think watch for that. We haven’t covered that one off yet, but I think let’s do that as another trap is not setting the boundaries, but as we said today was all about the extremes at either end and then we’ll start dealing maybe bringing it back into the middle and then how do we go from there? So hopefully that’s been helpful today. The two traps, the withdrawal reflex and the open all hour syndrome.

Speaker 1 (17:27):

Yeah, absolutely. The bottom line is that building your business is important. There’s no doubt about that, but you’ve got to remember it’s there as a vehicle to enrich your family life, not be built at the expense of it.

Speaker 2 (17:42):

Alright, so if this is something you are struggling with and you want to get back some of this balance and reconnection with your family that you might’ve built out as a result of falling into a couple of these traps, then please do get in touch book in a strategysession@strategysession.com.au and Rob can start the process of working with you to make the steps that you need to transform your business and reconnect your family.

Speaker 1 (18:05):

Hopefully you enjoyed another episode today around Family Matters and looking forward to coming back to you with another great episode next week on The Trade Den. Talk to you then.

Speaker 2 (18:14):

See you soon.