Episode 68 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

You’ve got to grow your leadership and who you are and how you show up faster than you’re growing your business. Hi everyone. Rob Kropp and Dan Stones here from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back, Dan. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:19):

Good to be back, Rob. Thank you. Really looking forward to today’s episode, and I’m going to jump straight into it. Today. We’re going to be talking about would you want to work for you? And where we’re going to start today is what we’re going to call a mirror test. And that’s unpacking that question. And as you listen now, stop and reflect on these questions. Pause if you need to as we go, answer them and get a take on where you are at because it is one of those questions that people don’t really often stop to ask themselves. So what does your leadership feel like from your team’s perspective? That’s what we’re really trying to explore in this first little bit. So the questions we’ve got first one is when it comes to communication, is it clear or is it just commentary? Second, does your team feel motivated or worn down in the presence of your leadership? Third, do you leave people feeling energised or exhausted? Are you in control or are you chaotic? Are you strategic or is your leadership just a series of knee jerk reactions and emotional outbursts? The truth is you already lead. The only question is how well, and if you can reflect on those to start with, it’s going to give you that sense of putting yourself in your team member’s shoes and really trying to understand how you’re coming across, which is really where we’re starting today’s conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:41):

Aren’t they really powerful questions? And for most people as leaders, we don’t often stop and reflect around what our leadership style is. We’re so busy, so many conflicting priorities, there’s so much to do. There’s not really, most people don’t stop and reflect on how they actually show up and lead every day, do they?

Speaker 2 (02:04):

No. It’s a response to what happens around you. And I think people are keenly aware of other people judging their leadership, but to stop and try and think of it from the perspective of your employees, something that sort of feels a bit foreign, but it’s amazing how much more clarity you get thinking outside your own head, if that makes sense. It’s a great way to stop and just think for a moment.

Speaker 1 (02:25):

And it’s one of these things that leadership is one of the most difficult things or paths that you’ll actually go down. And it’s hard because what you’re doing is you’ve got to try and run a business. You’ve got to show up as the best person as yourself despite all the other challenges and stuff that’s going on in your own business and personal world. And then you’ve got to lead and manage a team of people in around you and it, it’s hard work. It’s completely different just to getting up and being on the tools all day long. You’re dealing with the variability nature, which is people’s people. And that’s the difficult part of leadership, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (03:01):

It is, and I think it’s separate even from management. You talked about different from being on the tools to leadership, it’s different from management even I think management, there’s a rule book, there’s a guidebook, there’s a way of doing it. Leadership has to come authentically. There’s got to be part of you that needs to do it. Now, having said that, there are still three traits that we’re going to focus in on today that we think are probably the core ones, the things that you and I rob discussing this, the three traits that are really worth following in a leader. If you’ve got someone that’s got this, that’s a good starting point. So let’s break those down. We’re going to be talking about clear, consistent, and accountable. Now, there’s obviously going to be all kinds of shades to this. There’s going to be your version of it as you show up as your best, that authentic leadership that you’ve got to bring to the situation you are in your business. But those are the three we’re going to focus in on today. So trait one, clear.

Speaker 1 (03:53):

Clear is a really big one. And it’s that thing where do you set clear expectations? Do you have clear standards? Do you give people clear direction in terms of what to do and potentially how to go about it? But that clarity is huge in leadership because what you’re doing is pointing a direction and go, let’s go. But if people lack that clarity from your team are looking to you for leadership, and if you lack that clarity, then you’re just going to have this group of people aimlessly running around somewhat doing their own thing.

Speaker 2 (04:29):

And I think that shows up where people guess everything feels like a guest. There’s no solid ground to stand on. So no. And two of the ones that I like to focus in on is what does good look like? What does done mean? Good and done at two are probably the biggest lack of leadership things that I see when we’re coaching guys. So I think being able to focus on those two is really important. If we look to what it is and what it means, let’s also turn our attention into the signs that it’s missing. How would you know if you were missing in terms of clarity?

Speaker 1 (05:00):

Finger pointing. I think finger pointing is a big one where there’s people not stepping up and taking responsibility or that off the line comments saying, oh, I didn’t know that that was my job. They’re probably a couple of clear indicators in your team that you lacked clarity in terms of direction, delegation or instructions around what needed to be done and when.

Speaker 2 (05:26):

Yeah, for sure. What else? Have you got any others? I can think of probably, probably along the lines of mixed messages, but that idea of, well, nobody told me that it is just never been raised even though you’ll swear black and blue, that you did talk about it, that you did say it. And I think that comes across in sort of mixed messages.

Speaker 1 (05:45):

Yeah, I would agree. And when you think about what the definition of communication is, communication is not necessarily what is said, it’s what is heard. And people in your team are saying, I don’t remember that. Are you sure said that? I don’t remember hearing that. Then that’s potentially a sign that you haven’t been clear in terms of the direction or the standards or expectations of what you’re expecting out of your team. You’ve got a whole heap of shit going on in your world as a leader. Cashflow challenges, team problems, pipeline issues, whatever it is. But if your team are giving you this feedback, they’re like, I didn’t hear that. I can’t remember that. Then that might be an indication that you haven’t been clear in that direction or delegation to those team members. So that’s a really big warning sign.

Speaker 2 (06:31):

It is, and I think it’s to your point that you just said, Rob, is that people that are, if you are complaining about people not listening, if you are complaining about people never picking up on what you’re telling them, that becomes this reflective thing on your clarity, not the people that are responsible for the listening and the doing of the task. This is where you’ve got to step up for that, right?

Speaker 1 (06:50):

Correct. It’s like if you are frustrated because your team aren’t doing what you expect or if they’re not taking initiative or missing deadlines or whatever it is, this is why this exercise is really important, this reflective exercise is important is because you’ve got to ask yourself that question. Is it them or is it really my poor leadership, which is contributing to these missed deadlines and poor execution?

Speaker 2 (07:13):

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Let’s look at trait two then. Let’s move on from clear now we’re going to talk consistent.

Speaker 1 (07:20):

Consistent is huge in leadership and consistency for me in leadership means how you show up every single day. It’s not about showing up when you feel like it or showing up when things are great. It’s your ability to show up and get on with a job regardless of the good, the bad and the ugly that’s going on in your world.

Speaker 2 (07:41):

Talk a bit more about in your world piece and what you mean by that. I know where you’re going with it, but just explain that a bit more.

Speaker 1 (07:48):

I think we have to accept that everyone’s going through a challenge at all times. We’ve all got challenges, we’ve all got problems in our world, and sometimes they’re business problems. Sometimes there’s personal challenges going on in our worlds, whether it’s health related, fally related, financial challenges, whatever it is, everyone’s faced with something. No one lives a perfect life. And I think as a leader, it’s your ability to somewhat compartmentalise that other stuff that’s going on in your world and show up as the best version of you, regardless of the issues that are going on around you. And that’s a sign of a really good leader who demonstrates that trait, which is consistency on a day-to-day basis.

Speaker 2 (08:39):

Yeah, absolutely. So I like that word regardless. So regardless of what’s going on, you are still leading. You don’t get to take time off of being a leader just because something else is going on. It might be hard, it might be tricky, but you’ve still got that part of you has to show up. And I think the same goes for energy, just the energy you bring. When we talked about this previously, the power of your presence. What are you walking into the room with? How are you showing up energy wise? That has a huge impact on how things go.

Speaker 1 (09:08):

Yeah it’s not about faking it and as a leader, you do have to be vulnerable and share somewhat around the reality of what’s going on. I think that’s what humanises leadership, but the problem is if your mood on a day-to-day basis is influenced around the external factors, that’s the trait of poor leadership when it comes to consistency. And so it’s your ability to be able to cop a phone call, which is really, really bad news, brush it off, go into a meeting and somewhat pretend that that issue outside the door does not exist. And if you can keep showing up on a day-to-day basis, and it’s not about being robotic, but it’s the energy that you bring and the mood that you have and how you show up on a day-to-day basis consistently is what sets the tone as a great leader for a business moving forward.

Speaker 2 (10:04):

Yeah, I’d agree with that. And I think for anyone listening that goes, yeah, but you don’t know, it’s really hard. It’s super hard for me, the way to lead through that really is by being consistent through your standards and doubling down almost on what your standards are. You lean into your standards, the harder it gets, not fall away from them, that will get you back on track and help you compartmentalise and manage your energy by sticking to your standards. So I think that’s just a little add-on to how do you access that consistency when things get hard, what are some signs that it’s missing?

Speaker 1 (10:38):

It’s your mood being influenced depending on what’s going out on in your outside world. And it’s one day you’re good, next day you’re stressed and you show up as a completely different person and your team somewhat walk around on eggshells because they don’t know who’s going to turn up. And that’s a sign of a leader who’s inconsistent because their team are somewhat not scared, but it’s like, all right, who are we going to get today kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (11:07):

Yeah, they’re on the defence. The spidey senses are tingling. You feel like every time you walk into the room as to who’s going to show up. What about, I think double standards is another one. I mean the consistency factor of how you interpret situations, how you lead through challenges and different things that are going on. People spot this one a mile away, but double standards like high performance, getting away with things. Guys that have been around the longest get the free pass. You come down like a tonne of bricks on some people for the smallest things, the big things that are happening every day that everyone can see just go either unnoticed or it doesn’t matter.

Speaker 1 (11:42):

And the last one for me would be that people don’t know if they’re going to get supported or if they’re going to copper spray because of whatever’s going on. And so your want to be able to know that you’re there to support them. They know that there’s a great culture and there’s an environment based on trust. That’s the sign of a leader who’s very consistent and shows up well. But if your team, if there’s a lack of that consistency day in day out, then the team just don’t know what to expect and who to expect depending on what’s going on in their world.

Speaker 2 (12:18):

Yeah. Consistencies for me when we talk about this, we’ll move on really quickly, but it’s one of those things that everyone understands. Everyone knows it’s required, but in practise it’s hard to be consistent with everything else that goes on. If you had none of these external inputs and shit going sideways and all that sort of stuff happening, you’d be consistent. But that’s the challenge. And I think that’s where the reflection comes in to stop and go, well, how consistent am I really? And what would my team say about my consistency as a leader? So think about that as you’re asking those questions we posed at the start. The third one that we’re going to talk about, and the last one today is accountable. Be accountable.

Speaker 1 (12:55):

We could do a whole topic on this. We probably will.

Speaker 2 (12:57):

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (13:00):

Having a culture of accountability starts and stops at the top, which starts with you as a leader. And I know we’ve said it on a previous episode that the fish rots from the head down, and this is where this accountability comes through, is having a leader that is accountable to themselves is what goes a long way to creating that environment or culture of accountability within a business. And you’ve got to remember that if you are not accountable, well, why would your team be accountable for meeting deadlines and hitting certain standards and expectations? And so accountability as a leader is hands down one of the top three traits when it comes to a strong leader.

Speaker 2 (13:41):

And do you see that as being accountable for yourself or holding people to account? There’s a slight difference, but I’m interested to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (13:50):

I don’t think you can hold people accountable unless you hold yourself to the highest level of account.

(13:56):

And so I think if you naturally follow up and follow through, or if you live and breathe by the mantra, like we say here at Pravar, which is you do what you say you’re going to do or you flag early. It’s one of our favourite sayings here at Pravar. I think if you live and breathe by those mantras, you naturally hold yourself to account, you hold yourself to high standards and you have higher expectations of yourself, and then naturally you set that tone and culture within the business, and then your team will naturally then generally fall into line or they’ll fall out of the business because they don’t fit within the culture. So I think accountability starts with you as the leader and everyone else will somewhat fall into line if that strong culture exists.

Speaker 2 (14:42):

Yeah, it’s almost like that accountability piece that we’ve just talked about. It almost sits on top and it’s layered with consistency rather than the other way around. I know we’ve talked about number three, but really accountability is where it all starts.

Speaker 1 (14:54):

Yeah, correct. And it also layers back to clear as well, because when you think about accountability, you can’t hold someone accountable to something that they don’t know they’re being held accountable to. And so the thing that always precedes accountability is clear direction, clear delegation, clear instructions, and clear communication. Because if someone gets that, then you set up for an accountability conversation down the line. So clear and consistent, somewhat fall underneath accountability in the trait of a strong leader.

Speaker 2 (15:33):

For sure. And then signs that it’s missing, let’s look at those. I think for me, probably there’s a handful, but what you just said, then you avoid those conversations because you’ve got not a leg to stand on, you haven’t held yourself accountable. How do you expect you’re going to have conversations with people around this? So if you’re avoiding those conversations, that’s another signpost to say, I’ve got something to do about this accountable thing. There’s some work to be done there.

Speaker 1 (16:00):

Yeah, it’s almost a bit of a do. As I say, not as much. Yeah. Not as I do thing, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (16:04):

It is. It’s pretty telltale when it happens. And you can guarantee, again, if you put yourself in the shoes of your employees or you go and ask the question, that’ll come through pretty loud and clear.

Speaker 1 (16:15):

Yeah. I think when another one that comes to mind is this constant repeat of negative behaviours or missed deadlines or whatever it is in a business. And I think that’s because as a leader, if you are not accountable to yourself to do what you say you’re going to do and follow up and follow through, then naturally if you don’t do that to you, then you’re not going to do it to other people. So I think that that consistently lower performance or lower levels of profitability is an indicator of poor accountability as a leader.

Speaker 2 (16:47):

For sure. Definitely correlations there. Is there a reason why I’m starting to feel like I need an ice cream or something Rob?

Speaker 1 (16:57):

I’m not sure if you’re listening here and you can hear that through my microphone, but there’s a Mr. Whippy van that pulls up every single day to the park across the road from our house, and yes, Mr. Whippy is so if you’re feeling peckish for a bit of an ice cream, that’s why.

Speaker 2 (17:10):

There you go. All right, now I know why we don’t have meetings at this time of the day at Pravar. That’s all good. I know where you are now. All right, let’s keep going. I think the other one in terms of accountable is the one that we dislike greatly. The B word, everyone’s busy. I think that’s another sign that busyness is absolutely a sign that there’s something to do with accountability there.

Speaker 1 (17:34):

Yeah, busy. But there’s no results to show for it. Everyone’s running around like a busy idiot, but what are we actually achieving here? And that’s just a sign of poor accountability from the top.

Speaker 2 (17:45):

Yeah, definitely. And I think it’s not just that everyone is busy, I think it’s that busy somehow ticked as being okay, as long as you are busy, then things aren’t, it’s all good. Just keep doing that. I think there’s that sense that busy’s, okay, just for the sake of being busy, I’m ready to move into a challenge. What do you think?

Speaker 1 (18:02):

Let’s do it.

Speaker 2 (18:03):

Alright, let’s bring this home. This week’s challenge. This is something that we want you to do that will signal a shift in your leadership. It will be felt, it will be seen, it will be heard. It can’t just be a once off though. It’s something that you’ve got to apply consistency to and you’ve got to be able to do this over and over again. This is part of a practise of leadership. We didn’t talk about that today, but leadership is definitely a practise. So the three things we’ve got for you, first of all, ask your team. Get out there and talk to people on your team. Ask them, what’s one thing I could do better as a leader? And find out, they’ll be willing to give you the feedback. If they’re not guaranteed, one of those three things is already going to pop its head up in terms of your leadership.

(18:44):

Second one, reconnect with one dropped standard. A standard that has probably fallen by the wayside. Something that’s fallen off the radar, but raise it up again. Alright? And when we say raise that standard up, it’s not call a toolbox meeting. It’s not sit there and tell everyone else what you want to do. It’s actually go and do it yourself. Show that behaviour, demonstrate that behaviour. Show that you are raising that standard, that it’s forefront of your mind, lead the way, in other words. And then the third one, give one person just one. I guarantee if you do one, you’ll probably do more, but give one person some genuine feedback or what I like to call a random act of encouragement. Just pick out a moment in a day, go and give someone a random act of take a moment and do a random act of encouragement and see the results of that. Again, that’s good leadership. And if you do that consistently, the benefits just multiply over time. It’s really, really powerful. So those are our three elements of our challenge for this week on leadership.

Speaker 1 (19:42):

Leadership’s one of those things that requires practise, doesn’t it? And when you’re growing a business beyond a certain point, it’s no longer about being great on the tools, it’s about how well you show up, build a team, lead them and manage them to be able to create a result. And it’s one of those things that takes, takes time, it takes discipline, and it takes practise, doesn’t it?

Speaker 2 (20:02):

It does. It’s a real you attract through your leadership and what you attract into your business, into your world, the results financially that you spoke about, the people that you get, the team that you build, all of that at a certain point in time is going to come from your leadership. People stay and go due to your leadership. So the ramifications of getting this wrong are absolutely huge, as are the ramifications of getting it right. The choice is how much are you going to invest in it to get the results that you’re really after?

Speaker 1 (20:31):

One thing to remember is that your business will never outgrow your leadership. It’s just fact. It might outgrow it to a point, but it will potentially settle back to your level of leadership. And that’s why when growing a business, you’ve got to grow your leadership and you are and how you show up faster than you’re growing your business. Otherwise you will become the greatest bottleneck in the growth. It’s not that the opportunities aren’t there, it’s just that you personally limit those opportunities. So if you’re in that position where you know need to be able to develop your management and leadership capabilities and you want to be able to take your leadership and business to the next level, then jump across to strategysession.com.au book in a call and let’s talk a bit about where you’re at, where you want to go, what we need to shift, and see how we can help you have the best year yet. Hopefully you enjoyed today’s conversation and looking forward to coming back to you with another episode next week on The Trade Den. Take care.

Speaker 2 (21:26):

See you soon.