Episode 83 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

I like what we’re looking forward to working on now and I can still see more growth in the team and in the business and even in myself. Yeah, where I’m at now and yeah, I see so much. I see the most of it still to come, which is cool and hopefully when we get there there’s even more future to see.

Speaker 2 (00:22):

Hi everyone, Rob Kropp and Dan Stones from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back Dan, how are you?

Speaker 3 (00:30):

Hey Rob. Good to be back. Hi everyone, really happy today. Another client feature with a ripping guy. This should be a fun episode with a lot of story to tell as well. So big welcome to Sean Bates from Elk Electrical.

Speaker 2 (00:44):

Dan, Rob, how you going?

Speaker 3 (00:46):

We’re doing very well mate.

Speaker 2 (00:48):

Good, thanks mate. Great to have you on. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 3 (00:51):

We just wanted to talk to someone from the Gold Coast who’s in warmer weather than what we are at the moment in the middle of winter.

Speaker 1 (00:56):

It’s balmy up here today to be honest. Actually I was speaking to Benny car earlier today and he was wishing he was up here so.

Speaker 3 (01:04):

I think we all are down here. That’s fine. Thanks for coming on. That’s awesome. That’s great

Speaker 1 (01:10):

Rob, on another chance to do that to you too, so.

Speaker 3 (01:14):

Welcome aboard mate. Great to have you on. Let’s start the conversation usual spot like where you’re based, where you grew up. I’m interested to hear probably what it was like for you growing up given the area you’re from. So why don’t you just give us a bit of the rundown in the drill of who’s who in the zoo and where you grew up.

Speaker 1 (01:31):

Yeah, so I’m born and bred on the Gold Coast, which is probably unusual in itself. Majority of people these days have moved here but we’re pretty accustomed to the traveller coming through and relocating and setting up here. They bring a lot of culture like money over the last 10 years, which has been great for the Gold Coast. But growing up here I grew up with a family of four, I’ve got a beautiful family, my parents are very supportive. My sister got all the good looks and brains out of the two of us, so that was unlucky for me. We probably spent most of my time, we live on acreage so just kicking the footy outside down the beach. My best mate and his brothers and sister grew up in the hinterland so I was out there BB guns, playing in the creek, doing all those things and then I guess the other side of the Gold Coast is Tinseltown, so as you grow into your teens and early twenties you spend a lot of time out there yahooing and carrying on. But I’ve done a lot of travelling in my twenties and stuff like that and always appreciate coming home and standing on Burley Hill and going for a walk and looking back along the coastline thinking how lucky we are to live here and it’s such a beautiful part of the world.

Speaker 3 (02:40):

It really is. I dunno about you Rob, but for me it’s always whenever I meet people that live and have grown up on the Gold Coast, it’s like you grew up on holidays, it’s just the weirdest situation. We went there a lot as kids growing up and spent a lot of time there. It was always the holiday place so I couldn’t imagine what it was like going to school there.

Speaker 1 (02:56):

Yeah, no it was good. There’s a lot of energy on the Gold Coast, all kinds of energy to be honest. Yeah, no it’s a beautiful place to grow up and I couldn’t think of anywhere else I would like to grow up kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (03:15):

And travel was a big part for you, it you’ve done a fair bit of travel in your years, in your younger years.

Speaker 1 (03:20):

Yeah, it was. I’d spent a good three years overseas. I’ve come home in between there to take some money, pay up some debts and go again, probably make a tax claim. I think it was in the middle of the year time at. Right. And you can work half a year and that works out pretty good. So yeah, no, I did two snow seasons in Canada through America, South America, Mexico and then Europe and then that was back to Canada for the second season. So big part of my life, I mean the trade took me overseas, which was really cool as well. Worked as a sparky in Canada, Vancouver and over in Alberta in the oil mines there and then in the UK, which that wasn’t much chop. I got out of there as soon as I could to be honest. But yeah, good experience nevertheless and did a talk at my kid’s school not long ago and just been able to tell the kids that a trade can take you anywhere and can turn you into anything really. It’s just such a good start, such a good start of a career going down that pathway.

Speaker 3 (04:16):

Did you grow up in a trades house? I dunno, I think your dad Cole was in trade.

Speaker 1 (04:21):

Yeah, funnily enough listening to Mitchy cops podcast the other day. My dad’s a Sparky. Two brothers are a Sparkies and they’ve all got a son who’s a sparky so I’m from a family of Sparkies from all different walks of the trade I guess, which is cool.

Speaker 3 (04:36):

Was it what you wanted to do growing up? Did you know you were going to follow the family trade I suppose we can call it. Not really.

Speaker 1 (04:44):

I think I got an apprenticeship before leaving school just because I was kind of a kid who I didn’t really have too much, I wasn’t fixed on any one particular thing. Played union league soccer, little athletics, nippers. I kind of did it all and enjoyed just being outdoors and around people so I never really had my heart set on much. So I was probably one of those kids come in the end of school that didn’t really know what they wanted to do. I think dad had always said if you’re going to do a trade, it is a pretty good trade. It’s been good by him. You can have crack along the lines, doesn’t need to be for everything. It can take you kind of anywhere. I think I got into uni and failed three out of four subjects and I was probably at the mercy of growing up on the Gold Coast.

(05:23):

I think I was at the beach surfing more than I was in class and I remember failing a subject where you could take one whole sheet of paper, if you could write in size three, you could take it. I only filled up half a page. I think it got to the end of that first semester. My parents were like, it’s going to be a very expensive exercise here if you’re going to just treat it like this so you’re sure you want to do it. And I was like, yeah, no man. So we went and got a trade, went back to the company that I think it was a group training mob that had offered me an apprenticeship previously. They were happy to have me back and got a really well-rounded apprenticeship through them that they were electric group, they were quite big at the time, little guys, small guys working on site and then kind of travelled fairly quickly. I think I was only a year out of my trade and then went travelling for three years, come back, did some time in the mines and then heavily in large commercial projects and then it was about 2015 I think I just decided to get my contractor’s licence with a maid after a big job had finished with no real prospect of what was ahead of us and spent a lot of time subbing in the early years there and that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (06:28):

Was the trade just a way to get to travel at that time or were you hooked on the trade? I mean obviously now we know you and your passion for the trades there. You love it, love what you do. Was that the initial thing or was it just a means to an end?

Speaker 1 (06:41):

Yeah, it was like you’re kind of getting paid to learn I guess and it was what I enjoyed doing, which is being hands on, problem solving, getting things sorted, working with initiative and that kind of thing. So that’s just what drew me to it. I think the whole uni thing, being back in the classroom just wasn’t my time. So that’s probably what drew me to a trade initially I did then probably just get tired of the big commercial sites and the big industrial, get past the gatekeeper and it was kind of very political and that kind of thing, which I didn’t really have too much time for. So fell into working for myself.

Speaker 3 (07:27):

That was going to be my question. How did we go from that into your own? Was it you and your mate that started or was Elk the first incarnation of this is the business? This is where I went from?

Speaker 1 (07:37):

Yeah, it was just me in a van and probably it was, I think I was single, didn’t have too many commitments so I was kind of happy just being out in a van, doing my own thing, working for a lot of people you knew that first step is you’re working for family friends or extended family and their word of mouth and that kind of thing, which I really enjoyed just being around people, servicing people, doing a good job, getting the call back, all that kind of thing. And then I did try and go into partnership with a mate who me and him used to suby to each other. It was more than that. We were almost like it was an unofficial partnership but then we did try to do it officially and it definitely didn’t go bad. It didn’t work for either of us, but we definitely helped each other in the early days it was just whoever had the most work probably made slightly more money than the other guy, but you’d show up for an hour if he needed to pull a cable down a wall, we were going to help each other out.

(08:35):

So it probably never needed to change. And then I think I was just kind of just that early days, how do I put an apprentice on, how do we put a guy on? But I think it was like most things in life, the best things also the worst thing. So having him there, we supported each other, but neither of us ever took this plunge to put someone on because we had each other. So it was kind of like the best and also the worst. We never really manned up to it. And then I actually left contracting and worked for someone else, a big kind of corporate site company supervising for six months and realised that I was running a sharper ship as a one man band out the back of my car than this corporate mob was. Some of the things I was getting asked to do, I was just like, there’s no way I’m going to tell our subbie crew to do that.

(09:15):

So I just went back and had a family, started a family by that stage and had a bit more hunger in my belly and I think ARC Projects who’s one of my main clients still and has been for the last 10 years. They had really picked up and one of my mates worked there and they’re an insurance builder so I was kind of just struggling to keep up with their growth. And then we had a big hailstorm event in Springfield Lakes, which really gave me the opportunity to look at putting guys on. I put my first guy on, I think a second guy then my old man, Cole, he was kind of semi-retired and always had said, if you need a hand I’ll help you when you need a hand kind of thing. So he didn’t want to dive in too early, so he’d just come on board just tucking in. I was and the other two guys where there was no real structure, we were all just having a crack really.

Speaker 3 (10:05):

Did you feel at that stage this is great or was it starting to get scary? How did you go through these early years of, was it elk at the time and how did it feel as you were growing? Did you get a sense of I’m starting to get out of my depth or was it all just awesome?

Speaker 1 (10:23):

It was a bit, yeah, it’s always been elk. Elk electrical. It started as ELK, I never wanted to call it elk. I thought ELK, yeah, elk could be if it’s residential and the ELK it pseudo site next minute there’s antlers, deer heads, we’ve got the whole bang mate. So they turned and then I was off ELK, I was like cold called ELK and I’d be like, it’s not EK, it’s elk mate, what are you saying? So I flipped that real quick. That was a funny transition. I think the boys gave me shit and I’m the type of person that’s like, I’ll take it on with both shoulders wide. So I just took it on and transitioned to elk. But yeah, no, it was scary in those early days I didn’t know what I was doing and we were just chasing our tail and I think I was working out of my parents, we sold a unit, moved back to their house to save some money.

(11:10):

I think baby number two was on its way. I was just working out of their office and I was getting home scheduling jobs eight o’clock at night, printing, printing work orders to scribble on the next day to come home and reconcile. I think I may have had a bookkeeper at that stage. I was probably lucky that an accountant lived next door to me in the unit and he took me on and I was like everyone you would just using Excel to try and reconcile as a sole trader. And I think as I come back contracting, I started a company and that kind of thing and had a bookkeeper but no JMS, nothing like that. I was sitting up drinking red wine, trying to book jobs eight o’clock at night. It send shivers down my spine these days. It really does. And it did go on for a little while like that. I was probably lucky in the insurance industry. People wanted you there so they were happy. Oh I’ll take the phone call, get here. It was a huge event. There was people with holes in there. Hailstones had gone through solar panels through a roof tile through drip rock next to them in the lounge room so there was some serious damage up there. So it was kind of anything goes, all systems go kind of thing. And we were getting a lot of work done.

Speaker 3 (12:17):

And I think this is the cost of the growth though. As you start to grow and you start to build and you start to get momentum, the waves get bigger if you know what I mean. The demands grow, everything grows and eventually it’s sort of like holy shit. I mean you start to feel like at some point you’re drowning. How long were you drowning for I suppose as we get into coming into coaching and where we know the story but what did that feel like?

Speaker 1 (12:42):

Yeah, it would’ve been a good year. I had a lot of mates that were kind of sub in and then Cole that was helping out and a couple of guys, it was a good hours drive from the Gold Coast of Springfield Lake, so I was trying to juggle arrangements on travel and subby and full-time employees and guys that never went up there and just did the Gold Coast work from our existing client base. So I was literally just going, what the hell is going on kind of thing. I joined some coaching outside of Pravar that probably ended up in hindsight just being a bit niche. It was just a little too niche. It was overlaid with their business success, which is a B2C model and I’m there trying to bang down the insurance, oh this is how we’ve got to do it. Trying to change the world in that sense. And it took me a while to even really understand what I was trying to do wasn’t fit for my business model.

(13:35):

Most of the projects we did at that stage were just for friends who were builders. Had a guy who had a fairly maintenance contract for a wealthy family that had multiple properties through Byron Hillcrest school. A lot of it was they just wanted hourly, they wanted a service arrangement. I’m trying to overlay fixed cost and this is going to be PowerPoints this much. And it was just very, there was 50% of it obviously was good coaching knowledge and then the other 50% of it was just too niche for where I was at. It took me a little while to realise that, but I think I did realise that I needed help. I needed coaching that coaching wasn’t a myth. I did learn a lot there.

Speaker 3 (14:16):

Was it sort of business management you felt you needed at the time or was it just the demands of the job, the hours you were working, were you looking for time back? Were you looking for skills? What was your chief thing that was driving it at the time?

Speaker 1 (14:28):

Yeah, I think it was just that core business knowledge of having the self-belief to put someone else on. And I think it was, I was struggling to see the light and the value of putting an admin staff on. I had guys around me and he might be 65 an hour as a subby and he’s this and everyone was chargeable. So for me, I was kind of at that point, again, hiring your first apprentice, I couldn’t comprehend hiring an admin staff where you’re like, oh my god, how am I going to make that money back? How’s that going to help me? Are they actually going to be able to do what I do? And yeah, that was pre-talk to Rob and he’s great at giving his spiel when you’re in that zone. He offers a lot of value in that first call and you see a lot of light then.

(15:12):

So I think I was drowning. I just needed to help in that structural side of things and in the insurance space is very demanding at an admin level, so structure was what I needed early, probably more so than guys that are doing the same rev doing projects. I needed something a little different. So I probably didn’t really understand how maybe deep I was at a personal level and where that was going, but I just knew that I needed a little bit of extra guidance and I was getting great mentorship from old man but he was heading the business as well so it was hard to look back at it kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (15:50):

Yeah, it’s a common sticking point that we see with a lot of trades businesses when they hit that point. It’s generally around that million dollar rev mark and you’ve got a few guys around you and businesses getting bigger, things are getting busier, no backend systems, no processes, no structure and they hit that wall where it’s like I know I’ve got to delegate, I know I’ve got to put non-chargeable people around me. But it messes with your head, doesn’t it? Because you know that you’ve been able to leverage to some degree by putting tradesmen around you, but as you said, they’re chargeable but all of a sudden taking that step of getting fully off the tools and bringing in office staff and office crew around you, it’s a real hard concept for a lot of trades businesses to wrap their head around, isn’t it?

Speaker 1 (16:35):

Oh it is. And I think I might’ve onboarded with simPRO as a JMS too with the other coaching programme and it’s a beast out of all of ’em to take on initially and I didn’t have anyone sitting in the office to drive it, so I’m coming home going, oh yeah, cool, this is great. simPRO is cool, but still not really having the time to really utilise as it should be used and not really understanding how much someone does need to be driving that thing all day long and being championing it. I just didn’t have the time, didn’t have the knowledge, I wasn’t getting it anywhere and I just felt like a lot and then you kind of trying to juggle subbies and turn full time and an admin thing and then that’s kind of when I come, I’d left that other coaching just kind of realising that it wasn’t, I wanted coaching but not that. And then I think Rob was on a podcast with the other fellow and I literally not like everyone else, I didn’t see any of your Facebook ads, man, I couldn’t find you for the life of me. So because of the Pravar, I was like, what was that name? It was such a unique name and I remember just Trawling podcast until I found it and found it and reached out and had a great conversation with Rob.

Speaker 3 (17:47):

So Matt, at this time you are still, let’s just sort of take stock here. You’ve got the business side which is kicking goals, everything’s happening all at once, albeit you are still I think on the tool some of the time everyone’s chargeable running around, plus you’ve got the added thing of family. You said before you’d had kids by them, but now they’re starting to grow up a bit. So what was the pressures like ramping up at home as the family grew in step almost with the business?

Speaker 1 (18:12):

Yeah, so I guess that’s just such a blur in my life. Some of that I guess my wife’s amazing, she’s such a great mother and we had Navy who was young, we’re still at my parents’ house kind of thing, which is a lot for a young mother to be there with the mother-in-law and as much help as they are still just it’s, it’s a huge part of your life to not have the space. So we appreciate every time we’d been back to my parents’ house and we were lucky enough to be able to do that. But I think Ruben, when he was born, he had a lot of colic and stomach issues and he’s loud man, like Navy, I remember think she’s so cute, a little cry and it’s the first time I heard him cry I’m like, holy man, he’s loud and you’ll see him in next week.

(19:00):

He’s loud man around the pool and he’s a loud human and that didn’t change. So then Jacqueline was like, yeah, she was going to elimination diets and stuff like that. Like I said, I was just sitting up doing what I needed to do, trying to come home. We were like ships in the night passing and you’d go in there and try and settle him while she’d put Navy down and I’d just be whipping back out there onto the laptop doing huge hours. Midnight was normal having a few beers and drinking red wine and that kind of thing, which just seems normal and even within the industry it’s not unusual to be doing that kind of thing. So I was just doing whatever I needed to do to get things done.

Speaker 3 (19:40):

And you were working at the office? There was no office, there was no at work. It was literally I was at work and at home at the same time. You’re in that situation.

Speaker 1 (19:47):

We there and then the guys would be showing up at five 30 the next day to pack a trailer and get out the door. So I think that’s a lot too. You can’t escape it there. You’re trying to have toolboxes. It was never really couldn’t have Barbie and the boys in that toolbox scenario. It was very ad hoc and I said I was running a lot of subbies at the time just trying to get through the workload and we managed. It was manageable but it wasn’t sustainable.

Speaker 3 (20:17):

Did you feel the pressure of that? Where did you feel it first? Because obviously as you went through things changed and you had to cope with it somehow. You found your ways, which we’ll talk about, but did you feel the pressure from the home front first or did you feel the pressure side from the business side or was it just all encompassing?

Speaker 1 (20:38):

I think it was probably the business side to be honest, Jacqueline, she never complained. She just did what she needed to do, which yeah, I never had that kind of calling from her. Some of the stories that I hear from some of the other guys, that’s why they come to coaching where was because they got that ultimatum to me, kids are the business dude, so I never had that. She was just stuck strong and she was doing what she needed to do and I was just trying to do what I needed to do with the business and to support the family and I had found a new passion for it after coming back and getting into coaching and that kind of thing and seeing some positive wins with work on the pipeline front, but just still not really understanding structure and just feeling completely swamped. We’d hit our ceiling. It wasn’t sustainable, the growth path we were on and I just needed something to kind change.

Speaker 3 (21:32):

So then we get into coaching then and you start to do some things around probably growth and structure. Can you remember the first sort of levers you did Paul, can you remember the first time Rob gave you that we’re doing this and this is where we’re headed, what that sort of was like?

Speaker 1 (21:48):

Yeah, it was good to speak to him. He talked about having a bookkeepers, one of you the key people, you want to surround yourself an admin and an estimator and a project manager. So just I guess, and it’s probably something that I’ll talk about a lot throughout this, the self-belief that you’ve got support there and that putting on an admin staff is the right thing to do, whether you can see that yet or not. So that was my first big lever coming into launch was to look to hire an admin and I did that fairly quickly and got hold of Sarah who was with us for three or four years. She was a great staff member. She grew along the way from those early days and become just the super admin that a lot of guys probably see. You have someone from the early days and they take on a lot and I think that was running into a second event which was a flood event. So that gave me someone who could sit in front of simPRO and manage simPRO and start to schedule some guys and I think I sat next to her for two weeks straight, just frothing at the mouth trying to explain simPRO to her. It was a lot but it was needed and she had previous JMS experience with a similar trades business. So that was definitely my first big lever that just took some weight off my shoulders really and let me breathe.

Speaker 3 (23:11):

Did you pump that? We talk about getting time back when we do this, did you pump that time back into the business or did that become sort of your time for family? How did you play that out when you got that time back?

Speaker 1 (23:23):

I stayed in the business, it just allowed me to keep on that supervision level kind of thing I think. Yeah, Sarah and then Cole was because he transitioned to some admin before that, but it was only me and him just bouncing off each other and then Sarah come in and we handed it all to her so he was like semi-pro management kind of estimating and I’m trying to, everyone was just stepping on each other’s toes. So it was really then I think I hired a supervisor was the next play, which then ended up being Jack who was my longest standing employee and also a great friend of mine and he’s a superstar. I think I was just surrounded by a lot of good people and I took that on early to surround yourself with good people and it’s part of my job.

Speaker 3 (24:12):

What sort of manager was Sean in those days as this team started to play out, how would you characterise your management style at that stage?

Speaker 1 (24:22):

Just a whirlwind. I think you’ve got to find people that are better at some things than you are and I think along with me and their mentor, Sarah took on the admin role and obviously you go, oh wow, they do do it better than you can at a full-time level. Obviously you’re wearing every other hat along the way, so there’s other things going on there. And then Jack was the same. To see him kind of progress into the early days of supervision was just great here and he’d already been with the company for a while so he knew the boys, he knew the clients. It went from them asking for me for them asking for Jack kind of thing, which was cool to see and I just was kind of out there just trying to drum up more work and continue to supervise and that kind of thing. Trying to optimise the structure of the team and just probably just battling a lot of stuff at home. I think we’d moved out at my parents’ house by then living in a rental, kind of not really knowing we had a block of land that we’re meant to be building on, but I think through COVID the development just kind of the ass fell out of it a bit. So what are we going to do? I was just struggling a bit myself trying to battle with my wife.

Speaker 3 (25:38):

Hang on a sec. So what happened to the office? Were you then working out of the unit?

Speaker 1 (25:43):

Yeah it was just a duplex kind of thing. So actually no, I was working out of a storage unit in Burleigh. That’s where we moved to a storage unit in Burleigh that we’d kind of be there sometimes. We kind of still had stuff at my parents’ house. I was in the unit at that stage. I didn’t really take too many people to the unit because I think Ruben was in his first year of life then and it was just ramping up really a lot at home and my wife was on a huge elimination diet and she was kind of balancing postnatal depression and I was, we just didn’t have the tools to help each other. It was just one of those times where I’m just going hard at work ship’s passing night, you think you’re trying to help each other? We were doing what we think’s right, but we were both kind of drifting apart a little bit and just probably mental health wise we’re just creating a bit of a monster I guess.

Speaker 3 (26:37):

There was a lot going on. I remember this as you’re going through, we’re sort of into the leverage coaching stage. Rob’s working with you on stuff and I remember sort of as we were talking about this, about Sean and this Elk business and all the levers and all that sort of stuff, but in the background there was probably the unspoken stuff that was going on for you personally at the time. Seemingly you’re juggling everything you’re doing as best you can, like you said and you were, but you didn’t just do that without a cost, right? This did come at a cost. It wasn’t just let’s mainline it and all agree that we’ll just work ourselves to the bone.

Speaker 1 (27:07):

Yeah, that’s it. I think that’s, again, I didn’t get that calling that you have to quit, you have to come back and see the family. I had to take that upon myself to really see that and I think that’s in leverage. What I got from leverage was the nails analogy and was I think a huge one taken away from that was being the lighthouse and not the tugboat and really seeing that there was things that were wrong in our life or in my especially personally that I needed to change to be that better leader, to be the better dad, to be the better friend, to be the better family man. I think before that it was just a whirlwind, it was survival mode to try and help Jacqueline the best I could and she was trying to do the same for me and try and help our son Ruben, get through his first year life and I think we hit rock bottom there.

(27:55):

We really did together, which sucked but it kind of in a weird old way had to happen. We had to come back from there. It didn’t happen easily. We probably both went and got just enough help just to get out of where we were. And then it still took about another year of hard work trying to navigate what it was in my life I needed to do to be better and just a lot of looking in the mirror and really I think that was a huge thing for me. Early days I think you go travelling to find yourself but you don’t, you really need to look inside to find you. So I think that’s what, and a bit of work with yourself down there, transitioning between coaches and that kind of thing. There was a lot of reflection at that time on who I was and who you think you are compared to who you actually are.

(28:44):

And I think a lot of the work that we do around with Dr. Martini and that kind work, it really, that’s what I’ve taken away from it. He’s like, it doesn’t mean you’re not them, it just means you’re not being that guy now and are you going to be him or are you not going to be him? That was another big one. Just the three letter word of stop saying try, which was you said to me, Dan, I was man that hit home hugely with me and realising that I was just trying to do too much. I was trying to be every hard at work, trying to growing, trying to be a family man and I just had to commit to what I really wanted again, come through changing my habits.

Speaker 3 (29:23):

Do you think my theory, looking back through what we went through and observing what Rob had done up to that point was that there was obviously some pain there, but it wasn’t until you allowed yourself to say, all right, I’m going to feel this pain, I’m going to explore it for what it is. I’m going to face the facts as we talk about at Pravar and I’m not going to try and hide it, mask it, keep it to the one side or try and control it. And I think once you did that, then it became apparent that okay, I’m going to now level up. There’s things going on here that I need to get off my chest, there’s things I need to deal with alcohol wise and how you were using that even though it was, I don’t know how devastating it was. Maybe you can tell us.

(30:03):

I mean obviously growing up where you did on the Gold Coast, it’s not like you grew up in a church neighbourhood type thing. You had your times with that, but that was sort of a way of life and it was just part of how you get through, how you have fun, how you release it, was all those things to you was there was an alcohol element to that, there was some substance stuff going on. It was just sort of par of the course though, so it wasn’t until you could strip that back that you sort of went, alright, let’s get back to bare bones of who I am now and who I want to be.

Speaker 1 (30:32):

Yeah, it it kind led from, it was just we did growing up drink when you’re having a good time, it was a camaraderie thing, it was for the good times and that’s what it was all about. And then you kind of just running the business, it’s like, oh, I need to get home and have a bloody beer. You think it’s there to de-stress you, which I know isn’t now, but it just kind end up. And then at home we were both dealing with our own demons that we just didn’t know how to help each other. So then for me it become a tool to help me think I was bandaid fixing myself, but then it was also a tool for celebration. So I’d find myself self-sabotaging myself nearly in the good times. They’re like, oh yeah, I deserve this. Oh, I deserve to have a Friday night.

(31:18):

I deserve this. And it just holds you back so much. And just for a couple of years there just battled with how I’m going to take it on. And I think just the self-belief that some of the other fellows give you in the group is the biggest thing I’ve taken away from coaching in reflection more recently is people don’t need to say a lot I think. And someone like Cade for instance, his comment around, there’s not one area in my life that’s better without alcohol. I struggle for so long to understand that really? Did you just going to have a red wine with your wife though when you have dinner? Surely? What about S of origin? You’re not going to have a beer? Come on man, you just can’t. You couldn’t. And we work with you Dan. I was like, okay, I’m only going to drink once a week.

(32:07):

But then it did work, it helped me through Christmas period where I’d struggled before and I tried a lot of things to navigate that situation for me and help myself there. And a lot of it did help, but it never really fully solved it for me. I really battled to get over that hill and see that comment from Kate about everything in my life is better without it now. Thankfully looking at that comment, I feel like I’m on the other side of it just going like, wow, man, that is such a powerful comment. And it really ran through my head so often. I used to think, wow, I’m just so curious about that comment to understand it more about, and no one pushes you in the group to mate, you’re a dickhead, you just need to do this. There’s people that get it and people who don’t, people in there and people who haven’t. And if it’s not alcohol and substance therapy, someone’s doing something else. And for me that’s what it was. And it had just come from an habitual thing of growing up on the Gold Coast travelling and it had turned into therapy for me, which yeah, it created a vortex at times and I’d be really good at times. And then unfortunately I had no other tools in my tool belt how to deal with it. So I’d go back down the same path and self-sabotage your good times and yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:21):

I think what you said before when you were talking about you and Jacqueline both having your own demons, your own things to deal with. I think for you coming back to that, you said we didn’t have enough, we had our own stuff going on that we couldn’t help each other, but I think you’ve recognised and even lighthouse through tugboat, all that sort of stuff is you stepping up and doing your bit, but it wasn’t just for you to get better for you or for the business at this point. I think that it was really, you never wavered in terms of the way Jacqueline never wavered to you, you never wavered with her, you fought for some of this stuff. There’s things that are going on that weren’t easy to deal with. You had your moments as a couple, there was all sorts of stuff going on, but the work you did always was almost underlined by the fact that this is going to allow me to get clear of what I need to so I can come and help her. There was something for the family, there was always that element of you that Rob and I could both see it. You had mishaps along the way, but we’d always see this sort of side of Sean, which was like, he’s doing this for the right reasons, he’ll get there because the why is so powerful.

Speaker 1 (34:24):

Yeah, it was. And I guess in the mix of it, you do, you might not see it, but I do see that a lot now and towards, probably along the journey it’s shined through for me a lot more. And again, just picking up that comment of being in the lighthouse and not the tugboat, that was huge analogy for me and it definitely brought on some good habits, like realising that a lead domino for me was gone to the gym in the morning. Maybe I hadn’t cleaned up completely what I needed to do in my nighttime routine yet, but I knew that that was something that needed to happen. So that got put in place and I knew that I could be a better, if I got that done, I could be a better leader, father, everything at home. And it definitely was set a good example for everyone else too.

Speaker 3 (35:12):

It did. It wasn’t a cold Turkey thing, but I think you understood the power of replacing one for the other. It’s not like you can just take it out and go, geez, I wish I didn’t do that. I wish I wasn’t x, y, z, I wish I didn’t have this to deal with. You started slowly and went, well if I’m not going to do that, what else am I going to do? What would I do? And you sort of took those steps and it started off with, I remember we were talking about gym and then all of a sudden you came back with this special type of gym and breathing and it was these things you were layering in. It was like, shit, this guy’s getting more on this side every time we talk about this stuff, which was the momentum, the way we say is one thing at a time over time and you just did that and chipped away.

Speaker 1 (35:49):

Yeah, well I mean that’s probably shown, like you said before, that me and Jacqueline were actually supporting each other so much because she’s the one who pushed me to native State and I was like, oh man, this gym doesn’t look like it for me. It looks like it’s a bit wacky kind of thing. I dunno if I’m going to go. And she’s like, you’ll resonate with the guy Taylor, it looks amazing. I am like, you know what? I’m going push myself out of a comfort zone. I’m going, I’m doing it. And I just fell in love with the place and it, it’s more than a gym, it is a holistic health centre realistically and it’s movement based therapy and they do a lot of breath work and that was kind of the next layer that I needed along the way of self-awareness. I guess I’d done a little of looking in the mirror at that stage and I kind of knew what I had to do and I definitely dabbled on a lot of aspects of it and done a lot of good, but I was just kind of trying to tie it all together.

(36:39):

Definitely that led me to the next phase of being able to go and see a psychologist and again, I wasn’t really going there to be like, oh, I’m an alcoholic, I need to get off B or whatever. I just went there to be the lighthouse to want to unlock that next layer and also to kind of free up some of my coaching. I think in a transition I ended up with Derek and he was a massive support for me. There again, we just kind of meant at home, probably hit another down wave kind of thing and business struggles, everything jumps on top of each other again. And he was a massive support for me, but I just realised I was probably bringing too much personal stuff to coaching in a sense. And as much help as I was getting, I was also holding myself back from business growth by coming there and just needing to vent and pour my heart out in coaching. So I was like, you know what? I need another outlet. And that was with a psychologist in Burley. So yeah, that was good.

Speaker 3 (37:35):

At this time then you’ve obviously becoming Sean, the bloke you want to be, right? Sean, the husband, Sean, the father, Sean, let’s call it Sean, the athlete, the guy that gets up and does stuff, right? All of that’s you personally and in the family. When did the transition from Sean, the Sparky happen? Because I think there was a lot of, your identity has been wrapped up in the trade. It still is, but I’ve seen a massive shift. I dunno about you Rob, but watching Sean, the shift in terms of Sean, the sparky to Sean, the business owner now is almost, you’d almost say it’s a complete shift into that being your home base. When did that happen and do you think it was part of the personal journey as it went or was it a conscious thing or is it just over time you’ve sort of just found yourself naturally liking it more?

Speaker 1 (38:19):

Yeah, I think it’s definitely probably the first big thing I’ve really fell in love with is running the business. And I think, again, I don’t think I’m too shy to notice that someone’s good at something or better than you at something. So I never probably thought I was the best sparky I knew I was good at managing people and customers even as one man band. I knew that was my strength of keeping people happy and making sure we went to the end to make sure that their job was perfect and that that’s what they wanted and were coming back and if anything was up they knew who to call and that kind of thing. So I think again, getting some other good young tradesmen on, for me that probably wasn’t the hardest thing for me was transitioning a business and it was the personal side of it to manage myself and be able to utilise your time correctly, do replace good habits with bad ones so that you were on your game as a businessman.

(39:17):

So I think Sean, the Sparky, that probably happened fairly early for me. I remember just trying to get back on the tools and thinking, oh, what am I doing? This is embarrassing. Dunno where my charge batteries are. So yeah, it did happen. It wasn’t probably something that I had to concentrate on too hard. It happened naturally through the work I was doing on myself I think. And the business was seeing good growth and again, we were doing good things and we’re doing a lot of work and turning over a lot of work and had pretty just stable growth throughout those couple of years I think. Yeah, it was good.

Speaker 2 (39:53):

We see this a lot in coaching that a lot of business owners get into coaching because they want to get more time and make more money and grow their business, but they don’t realise that business is really just a personal development journey wrapped up, wrapped up in an ABN. And that in order for your business to grow, one of the biggest journeys that you have to go on is your own personal journey to work through the stuff that’s going on in your world. And some guys in the trade space that we coach, they’re not willing to face those facts and look hard in that mirror and that’s not for them. But the ones that we see go the furthest and the farthest are the ones that first and foremost fix a few foundational things in their business. Then they go on a big personal journey themselves and then the business journey takes off after that. And that’s what we saw in you, Sean, that yeah, you fixed a few foundational things at the start, got off the tools, got admin in players, got some bookkeeping and got some site supervision in there, but your personal journey was the thing that really unlocked business for you. And that’s what we’ve seen over the last little while is it’s been personal, which has driven business forward, hasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (41:10):

Yeah, a couple of things along the way you can be the bottleneck to your own success and that your business will never outgrow you as a person kind of thing. Those things always resonated with me and I think were underlying drivers to be, and that was through leverage. That was a huge programme for me and it was the start of really, I was going to calls in launch with Dan probably remembers, he might’ve even seen a sneaky beer in the background and that kind of thing. So it was just habitual and then really understanding what it took and that your business wasn’t going to be any bigger than you if you couldn’t fix yourself. So yeah, I think just wanting to go on that personal journey has been good for me. And like you say Rob, a lot of people don’t want to do it. Yeah, it’s bloody hard to look in the mirror and really go, that is not who I am and that is who I am and that kind of thing. And again, like the nail analogy, it’s not breaking you yet, it’s not showing up in every aspect of your life, but underlyingly, it does hold you back.

Speaker 3 (42:19):

Sure. What enabled you though, when people look in the mirror and they don’t like what they see or they’re not happy with it or they identify this stuff, they can get very negative and it just becomes a beat up. It becomes like, well, you’re a piece of shit, you are this, you are that. I’m that sort of person and they almost reinforce the thing that they’re trying to get away from. What was it for you that allowed you to look in the mirror though and say, I’m going to grow through this. Do you know what that was? Has it always been in you to do that or is it something you actually can remember or something that triggered that?

Speaker 1 (42:48):

It was definitely my family and a growing family that really drove me to want to be a better dad and just you become a better leader and stuff along the way if you’re improving yourself. And more recently it’s definitely been working with a psychologist has helped me a lot to be able to, like I said, I didn’t go there for any really particular thinking. I was there for any particular reason, but just to grow the self-awareness and seeing life and yourself at a deeper level has really, I think that just started my journey with positive talk to myself. That was a big aspect. Early days working with Andrew, it was just, yeah, I think it, not super negative, but I think there was some unconscious level of negative talk that you’re not, maybe not good enough where you’re not doing enough and I let myself down.

(43:45):

So it was hard sometimes to think, to trust yourself when you’d let yourself down a few times it becomes, and then that pattern is hard to break out of. So I think a lot of it was just numb and not thinking about it to then really being aware, oh, hang on, there is some negative talk that creeps in when I do pay attention to it. To then flipping that, finding myself more, actually laughing at myself. Some of the stuff I started thinking, I was like, what are you even saying to yourself here, mate? It was kind of super positive and I’m like, where am I going with this? Is this a prayer or something? It really felt strange the first few times I found myself just really thanking myself and being grateful for the journey I’d chosen to take was super powerful. It was literally a pinch myself moment.

(44:35):

I’m like, yeah, wow. What am I doing? This is crazy. But just reflecting on that, it’s been really cool and I think it’s happened only progressively the way it needed to happen. I think along the way there, oh, I’m not doing anything, but I look back over three years that I’ve probably through leverage and whatnot around that time, like man, I’ve done a lot and changed a lot and it has to take time. You can’t just flip it on head and if you think you have, you’re usually still putting in the work to get to this new level anyway, so that definitely drove me more recently.

Speaker 3 (45:10):

Well, let’s look at that. I mean, three years ago, let’s call it the three year mark, roughly the right time in terms of the timelines we’re talking about. Where were your business wise? Let’s say pick any metric you want, but turnover and team. Where were you then?

Speaker 1 (45:25):

I think, yeah, it would’ve been about 22, 23. I think turnover would’ve been about 1.8 mil kind of thing. And we were about, were still in the unit I think then we moved into a warehouse. No, sorry. We moved into this house that we’re in now and they had detached attached office and that allowed me to hire Sarah and had that little bit of separation. Just enough, just enough. It’s still got kind of overwhelming with everyone here, but that’s where we probably went from 1.8 to 2.4. Just again, it felt like you could just breathe a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (46:03):

And where is that today? Now talk us through what that looks like today.

Speaker 1 (46:09):

Yeah, so then we moved into a warehouse nearby five or six minutes from home. A brand new warehouse felt really professional. You get a lot of support from the boys in pr that man, this is a huge moment. I’ve been through it recently. I’m about to go through it too, or I remember when that happened. And it really is, you have a sign out the front and you have a proper office to work out of and the boys aren’t showing up to your personal home. You get the trailer in the mornings and you can play with your kids two afternoons that you pick ’em up and not feel obligated. Oh God, everyone’s watching me play with my kids now and they’re working still, that kind of thing, which is harder. I’ve had a great team and when I did work out of here, there was the afternoons, I picked my kids up and they were great, but it’s all an internal thing that you think of.

(46:50):

So yeah, I mean turnover wise now, I think we did 3.2 last year or last financial year. So we’ve just had some really healthy, substantial growth kind of thing. It’s felt organic. We put a lot of hard work into it kind of thing. Team wise, we’ve got 11 in the field, six in the office, which is estimator, project manager, supervisor, two VAs, again, just due to the insurance, the amount of work that’s required there. So yeah, I’m super proud of the team now. I’ve got such a solid bunch of blokes and girls that work for me. They’re amazing. They know the business really well, and yeah, I’m feeling like now I’m such a good spot to really push hard and see some growth and I want to spend more time with each of my employees and out there being a good bd, doing a lot of BD work kind of thing. And that’s what excites me now.

Speaker 2 (47:52):

What I liked about your journey over the last few years that you’ve been with coaching is you did just over one. You went to mid twos, you’d done mid and gone, sorry, one to 1.8 to early twos, to early threes. It’s just been good, consistent, steady growth for you. And that’s what I’ve really liked about your journey. It hasn’t been, it’s amazing growth. You’re sitting in the bracket of running a great lifestyle business, which is between that three and 5 million mark. You’ve got an awesome team around you, good ground crew, you are sitting in your sweet spot. But it’s been good, stable, consistent growth for you, hasn’t it? The business has been growing along your own personal journey of growth, hasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (48:34):

Oh, it has. It definitely has. And that’s why now the reflection, I feel like I’m at a point where I’ve got such good reflection on my journey business wise, personal wise, and there is so much alignment there, which is really cool. And yeah, I think you do speak about that kind of growth being so good in business and it’s what you guys look for in a stable business, and I’ve always reflected on that. It’s something that’s never left in mind. I’m pushing towards the end of the year. I’m like, we are seeing really healthy, manageable growth, not out of control kind of thing. And yeah, it’s been an enjoyable ride though. It’s been bloody tough at times and I like what we’re looking forward to working on now and I can still see more growth in the team and in the business and even in myself where I’m at now. And yeah, I see so much. I see most of it still to come, which is cool. And hopefully when we get there there’s even more future to see.

Speaker 3 (49:34):

Yeah, it’s great to see all that lock in mate. It really is. Let’s finish on this one. If you could describe yourself three words, who you were before coaching and three words for who you are now, what would you use?

Speaker 1 (49:47):

It’s probably a hardworking, wild tradesman before coaching and I hope now, I think now I’m a stable leader. What am I think I’m definitely a stable leader for the boys. I feel like that’s what I’m super proud to be in that position now where I feel like I’m in a good space where I can help mentor the boys along the way. And some of that’s come up recently and I’m like just feel so proud and so grateful that I’m in a good head space and in a good place in my life that I can offer the same mentoring to those guys that they probably need at this time in their own lives. So yeah, I think that’s probably the biggest difference there.

Speaker 2 (50:37):

The one word I’d probably put in there, Dan is mature, stable, mature leader. And that leader for me isn’t just leader and on the business front, the leadership you’re showing on the home front with Jacqueline and the kids is amazing mates. So as you said, you’re a bit of a wild child, but now it’s a stable, mature leader. And that leadership.

Speaker 1 (50:59):

There was probably one award, I was in line there for a bit there too, Rob, but thankfully you took that off the shelf man. I was hoping I could win an award one now I just dunno where I’m going to be at. But set on, I was definitely a good contender. You probably wish you had have kept it that one year.

Speaker 3 (51:19):

Probably would’ve been one of the easier ones to award in our time. But anyway, we won’t go to that one. I was going to say Rob, I think I’d add to that also, and I think it applies to both is just an absolute ripping guy, mate, you’ve been fun all the way through. You have a really good outlook in terms of what life’s about and being able to find joy and help other people feel really good. So I think you’ve got that now. I think you had that back then. And to see those really cool traits that you have got stick through, it’s awesome to see that that essence now gets to shine brighter as you are the lighthouse. So really love it mate. I think Rob, that’s probably the gamut. I mean, Sean’s been such a great client. We’re wrapped mate, that we could do this today and reflect on some of this and you’ve done a cracking job.

Speaker 1 (51:59):

Yeah, it’s been a good journey. I appreciate it with Pravar and again, like all the brothers in the group, the ones that have passed through previously and the ones still to come and it really is a self-belief that you can get from seeing another fellow go through what you are going through and draw on that. I think it’s so powerful. It’s been so powerful in my journey and I think that’s what I reflect on a lot now is people have seen me go through this, I’ve seen others go through it in our group. I think it’s something that kind can give others self-belief that are coming through. So I’m super proud to be able to be in a position to do that with the help of Pravar.

Speaker 2 (52:36):

Yeah, we want to thank you mate, and we want to acknowledge the courage that you’ve had over the last 12 to 24 months as well. It’s shown a lot of courage to really go on your own personal journey. You’re transforming mate. As you said, you’ve come a long way, you’ve still got further to go, but you’re on an epic journey and we just want to commend you for the courage you’ve shown to really face the facts and put your stake in the ground and go. Things have got to change and I’m committed to doing that. So yeah, we are really proud of you, mate. You’ve done an awesome job.

Speaker 1 (53:06):

Yeah, cheers. Definitely hard work pays off, right? So it’s good. It’s a good journey. I love it.

Speaker 2 (53:13):

Well, that’s it for another episode here on The Trade Den, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, make sure you hit that follow button and maybe share it with one of your mates in the industry who you know is going through their journey and they might be looking for some help to be able to improve their business, make some changes in their personal life and their family and life, and help them get on the track to be able to make some positive changes in their world as well. So that’s the greatest gift that you can give to us is to hit that follow button, share it with one of your mates. And if you’re in that position where you personally want to make change yourself and you are ready to make that commitment to actually make that change, then jump across to strategysession.com.au book in for a call and let’s talk a bit about where you’re at and where you’re trying to go and seeing if coaching with Pravar is the right fit for you. Thanks so much for joining us today, Sean and Dan. That’s it for another episode of The Trade Den. Hope you enjoyed today’s episode and looking forward to coming back to you next week. Take care.