Episode 86 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Your words today shape your child’s relationship with challenge, effort, and failure for life. And it’s hard to wrap our heads around, but the words we say and how we say it go a long way in shaping our kids in their future. Hi everyone Rob Kropp and Dan Stones here from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back Dan how are you?

Speaker 2 (00:31):

Hey, Rob. Great to be back. Really good actually. And looking forward to a Family Matters episode today, which will be great. And I think today the power of language and what we’re talking about, it’s important to say that it’s not new. It’s not something that you won’t already realise. But as parents, we forget that our words shape who our kids become. It’s a real trap that we have. And every time you speak to your kids, you’re either teaching them that abilities can be developed through effort and through meeting challenges head on. Or we’re teaching them that their abilities are somehow fixed and that they’re either good at something or they’re not good at something that it’s easy because they’re good at it or it’s hard because they’re not so great at it. And the difference is the language we choose. And let’s face it as parents language is pretty much all we have.

Speaker 1 (01:22):

And this is the difficult part is that it’s not only the language that we use that we’re talking to ourselves, but the language that we use with our kids is so, so important because that I can either build them up or it can tear them down and we are sometimes uneven aware of what we do, what we say, or how we go about saying it. And so that’s why this episode is so critical because that language that we use on an unconscious level without even saying it could be doing damage to our kids without even realising it. Now as parents, we want the best for our kids. We want them to grow into great human beings and have strong self-belief and high self-worth and good confidence, good self-confidence within themselves. Yet we can be saying things or doing things in a way that we don’t even realise that could be undermining that from a very early age with our kids.

Speaker 2 (02:23):

Those unintended consequences, and I think you said it, the building up, ripping down, I think there’s a third one, which is they freeze, they just do nothing because they’re almost paralysed by what they think the words that will follow are so nothing happens. So there’s really a third option to that as well, which is they do nothing. Now, before we go on, let’s just be clear. When we talk about this stuff, we’re talking about parenting and it’s a very unique and individual thing and you and I are both parents, but we are not saying this and doing this episode on the basis that we’re perfect parents.

Speaker 1 (02:53):

Yeah, you’re right. There’s, let’s face it, running a business and trying to be a good husband and a good father and a good friend and a good family man all at the same time, it’s bloody hard. There’s internal stresses that we have within ourselves. There’s external stresses that are upon us and running a business and doing all those things, it’s hard. It’s very hard. And I look back at my time, I’ve got three kids, Grace, Maddie and Ben, and there’s times where I have said things the wrong way. I haven’t been proud about the way that I’ve gone and approached things, but I think today is just a nice little reminder that we can always be better and that we can’t understate the power of language. We talk about this in coaching a lot when we talk to our clients around what we say to ourselves because we’re always listening. But the next layer to this is it’s what we say to our kids because they’re always listening. Our kids don’t always necessarily listen to what we say they watch and listen to how we say things. And I think today we have to preface this that we’re not perfect. And this is something that you and I are striving to be much better on ourselves, aren’t we?

Speaker 2 (04:13):

Yeah, definitely. And I think it’s how they react to what we say and they respond to what we say. Their behaviours reflected based on what we say, not even just what we say and have they heard it, but they do internalise it. And I think my two kids, Harry and Emily, they’re a lot older, they’re grown up kids now. So I’ve seen the scars and the outcome of all the things that I’ve said over the years and there’s nothing more proud and there’s nothing more probably embarrassing than when you hear them talking with words that you’ve used all the way through their lives and you can see the end result of that. But there’s definitely a correlation to it and no one gets it perfect. So we wanted to say that because it’s very easy for you to think that, Hey, Rob and Dan are on their high horse here telling me how to parent. And it’s not that at all when we do this, it comes from a place of being better as you said.

Speaker 1 (05:01):

And I think if you’ve got older kids, you can still make a huge difference because a hundred percent you can always help shape and self-confidence within themselves. You can always shape that If you are listening here with young kids, this is super important for you because the self-worth, the belief and confidence that someone has as an adult is often shaped for someone who’s 10 years and younger. But if you’ve got kids that are older than 10, you’re not a lost cause. It’s okay. You can start to make some change in the way that you have conversation with your kids and you can probably be a little bit more open in your approach. They understand a little bit better.

Speaker 2 (05:39):

Definitely. And I think the common thing, regardless if they’re old, young or in between somewhere, is that challenge doesn’t go away. There’s no amount of parenting, no way that you will get this so right that they will never have a challenge in their life. So I think the ability to use your language to shape them for what’s coming, what’s happening and what will be there in the future is definitely there regardless of the age of kids or where you’re at as a parent or even as a person. Like you said, we work on our language with clients all the time. So that’s our emphasis for today is this language and trying to pick up an awareness and put the antenna up to what we are saying. And sometimes we’ll get it and sometimes we will miss it. I know I’ve had plenty of those moments where it’s like, holy shit, I wish I didn’t say that then, but I’ve said it and it’s a bit too late, but let’s be better next time. So let’s start with the language we’re going to say that destroys confidence. It may be a bit harsh, but I think it’s the language that definitely doesn’t help build is what we’re saying. It’s language that tears down. And most parents think that by using the language we’re about to go through, they’re building confidence, they’re doing something positive instead though the unintended consequence, and we’ll work through why it backfires in a moment, but the unintended consequences is that they’re creating a situation where fear is what they’re really harbouring by the language they’re using here.

Speaker 1 (06:57):

And that fear is often the fear of failure and it’s when they associate the language that we use as a parent to what they’ve been trying to do. And some of that language that does destroy that confidence is you are so smart, you are so natural, you are so talented or good boy or good girl. And if you repeat those sayings and I’ve said it to Ben enough, good boy, Ben, good boy or good work girls, it’s like it’s, they start attaching meaning to the use of that language. And what they’re doing is reinforcing that behaviour to the language that we use as a parent. And it’s reinforcing that, well if I do that, then I will get that result. And it’s not necessarily building them up because what they’re associating is that input creates that output which will create that reaction.

Speaker 2 (07:52):

And I think it promotes the idea that there’s a finite state that they’re being something their worth comes from a natural point of being a certain type of person or when I fit the mould of being smart or being a natural as you just said, that’s the secret. If I could just be that more often, then I will have these results. And the problem with that is that when they struggle, they think that there’s something wrong with them or they’ve fallen short and therefore being exposed in that light of falling short or not being enough becomes the thing that brings them back to that state of being paralysed by the fear, as you said.

Speaker 1 (08:27):

Yeah. Because when we say one of your kids is more leaning towards sport and you say, oh, you’re such a natural at that in your sporting, and then that builds their confidence in that area, but then we use it in the other area where they’re not good at sport for example. And you go, that’s all right. Maths isn’t your thing, you are better at sport kind of thing. What they’re doing is that they’re creating that mindset that they’re no good in that area. So we are really starting to shape their belief and confidence within themselves. And then they start to have this when they start to not get good results in certain areas and start to come up against challenge, they struggle with that and then that creates a relationship with challenge and failure that they’ve developed use due to the language that we might use around them when they get certain results as they grow up.

Speaker 2 (09:20):

You start avoiding challenge rather than seeing it head on and trying to get better. It’s just like, well, either they’re good at it or not. And that comes into that example you said Rob then is even if they are good at sport and they’ve got some inclination or some talent in that you can be good at a sport and have some sort of, it gels with you. You grew with it, it’s your thing, cool, love it. But even if you were to progress, you still will hit challenge. And what if the only thing you thought that you were doing right in that phase was the fact that someone told you once you were good at it, you’d get to that next challenge as you get with other kids that are good at it and they might be better than you. And then all of a sudden, if someone’s better than me, then I’m not good enough. Why would I keep going? Why would I persist or see that challenge through?

Speaker 1 (10:04):

It’s interesting, the more you talk about this, the more you realise that how people grow up and become adults and they’ve got a relationship with failure, they’ve got a relationship with challenge, they’ve got a relationship and certain beliefs around certain things. Yet if you kind of looked back in that person’s younger years in their life, imagine what environment they grew up in as a kid. And so this is why this topping, we’re going to get into it now around language that does build growth, but this is why the environment that your kids grow up in and the language that we use is so important because we are moulding, we’re shaping, we’re developing, they’re so malleable. Our kids, especially young ones, they, they’re in the palm of our hands and we’ve got to be so careful around how we behave as they’re watching and what we say because they’re listening.

Speaker 2 (10:54):

Yeah, it’s all they can do. It’s all we can do. As parents, we can only show up and we can only talk. That’s really it. At the end of the day, we can’t jump into their bodies and do it for them no matter how much you might want to or how much you want to try, let’s turn the corner and then have a look at some examples. I think that was really helpful for the negative side of it, if you like, or the unintended consequences. Let’s look at the language that builds growth. So the language that promotes confidence, and again, it won’t be just a straight line. Well, that makes perfect sense. We’ll break it down in a minute, but what examples have you got?

Speaker 1 (11:24):

Yeah, I wrote a few down when we were preparing for this and obviously everyone’s going to use these in their own way or whatever suits them, but there’s a few. I can see how hard you worked on that. So what you’re doing is recognising the hard work rather than the results. So you’re recognising effort and hard work, your effort really paid off. So again, you’re recognising effort. I like that you didn’t give up even though it got tough. So I like that you’re instilling the mindset in your child that it’s the perseverance, the determination. They had a crack even though they went through some hard times. So I like that one. What strategy did you use to figure that out? It’s a great question because you’re trying to get your child to think around what they did to be able to push through that. So I really like that one as well.

(12:17):

And I love seeing you tackle challenges like this. So you’re reinforcing them embracing challenge. And I like that one because as parents, we don’t want our kids to get hurt or go through painful times or experience challenge, but we’ve got to remember ourselves. That challenge is what creates growth and makes you a better person. And so when we see that in our children tackling hard situations, it’s about resisting doing it for them and asking them that question going or making the statement saying, I love how you tackled that challenge. That was really cool to see. So I’ve given a few examples there, but it’s about finding the words that work for you, but hopefully there’s a theme there where you’re encouraging, encouraging them to tackle the hard stuff and rewarding effort, not just the result in the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (13:08):

Yeah, I think if you learn to celebrate the effort, the process, the work that goes into it, you avoid that thing that we were talking about earlier, which was the type of person they are the naturally smart that you are, the sporty one, you are this, you know what I mean? We’re not identifying with the person. The other thing is that we’re not just celebrating the result. It’s not the pat on the back for getting the result. And if I don’t get the result, then there’s some other sort of way that we speak. It’s the constant that we are looking for. And what we’re trying to put in to be better at this is to focus on the effort that went into whatever result that comes up as we say in coaching all the time. The result gives us the result we want or the lesson we need, but was the effort there in the first place? And I think that’s the bias this languaging starts to do. It starts to put in celebrating that process, not the person and definitely not just the result for its own sake.

Speaker 1 (13:59):

Now I want to put a caveat around this. I’m definitely not about participation awards and so I don’t want you to be listening here thinking Rob’s just advocating. We reward our kids just for turning up. That’s not what I’m about. This is not about rewarding your kids just turning up. What we’re rewarding our kids for doing is showing up, putting in effort, there’s going to be winners, there’s going to be losers. You’ve got to be prepared. Your children have to be prepared that they’re going to win, they’re going to lose. But as parents, if we can use language which encourages hard work and grit and determination and perseverance and rewarding them just going through the process and keep trying and trying and trying and trying, that’s what we want to do as parents. Not just be patting kids on the back, giving them participation awards. So just also be mindful that this isn’t just about rewarding participation either.

Speaker 2 (14:56):

Yeah, absolutely. I really like what you said there, this idea of participation awards that gets thrown around all the time. A real life example of this is the language around you tried your best. When we do use that language and we do say that you tried your best, that might be true, but it also can set up a confidence destroyer in that my best may not be good enough. So whenever it’s down to you tried your best and that’s all there is, that sort of puts that finite thing, well, you’re either good at it or not. That’s the interpretation that usually comes in, especially with children who are listening to you say it over and over again and you tried your best. Oh, well, they don’t just hear you tried your best for what it is. They hear the sigh afterwards, the pause or whatever comes next.

(15:38):

It might not be your thing, Hey, you should try something else. You tried your best and maybe next time it could be better. Their confidence doesn’t rise as a result of being told they tried their best when they know inherently that they came up short. We used to have this all the time when I was coaching football and stuff and there was this idea of let’s not keep scores anymore. I was like, this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Because the kids inherently know who won, who lost. You say, we’re not keeping score. I guarantee the first thing you’re going to hear is kids keeping score. It always happens that way. They’re not immune to knowing that there are results in their lives that they want to have and things that they’re after and goals that they’re trying to reach. So telling them that they’ve just done their best always leads to that thing. Well, is my best not good enough? If my best not good enough, then I mustn’t be that sort of person, therefore I’m not going to try. So I think it’s just important that we link that up because that’s one of those real subtle ways that you wouldn’t necessarily think it, but if you can stay on the side of the effort, then the result will happen. But the effort’s, what we’re after, not just your best and all this sort of stuff that we throw around.

Speaker 1 (16:40):

Yeah, I really like that story. There’s another example that I can use around it is actually last night in a book that I was reading to Maddie, Maddie, our kids are young and Maddie brought a book home from kinder and I think it was Mary Lou, I Do Love You. It’s a book. And I think it was Mary anyway, but the book was is that it was about a koala and the mom had the first child and she used to say, Mary Lou, I do love you. And used to say it all the time. And then they had another baby and the mom stopped saying it. And this just keeps, this is reinforcing what we’re talking about today because the mom got busy and they had another little baby koala, and then the child started having this idea that, well, my mom doesn’t love me, she doesn’t say it to me anymore.

(17:33):

And she was start internalising that going, well, hang on a second. My mom doesn’t say it. What? She doesn’t love me. She’s always now giving the attention to the other child. And so then it’s the story in the book that this Mary Lou then went and started doing the climbing challenge and the climbing Olympics and it came up and because she did it, because all she wanted was her mom to say, Mary Lou, I do love you. And so it then told the story of this koala who went way over and above just to get that recognition and everything and the love from the parent. So this shows guys and girls that this shows that as people, we do things subconsciously without our knowing. And this story then goes on to Mary Lou didn’t win. She came second in the climbing challenge and then she kind of was sad because she didn’t think that if she didn’t win that her mom wouldn’t love her.

(18:29):

And then the story then goes on around how Mary Lou went home and the mom says, Mary Lou, I do love you. I always have and I always will. But that story shows us that as people and especially our kids where their everything we’re everything to them as parents and the language that we use and not use. And in this story, the mum didn’t even realise that. She probably didn’t say that anymore, but that Mary Lou created this idea in her mind, this story in her mind, that her mum didn’t love her anymore, but she didn’t say it. And it’s not that she didn’t love her, she was just busy looking after a second Koala to come along. And so this just proves that the language that we use and how we say things and what we say and how often we say things can have an astronomical effect on our kids more than we realise. And it’s stories like that that remind us every single day.

Speaker 2 (19:25):

And it just shows. I love that story just said, it just shows it’s not the words that are just being said. It’s how it’s interpreted by the child. The child’s linked up somehow in its mind that, Hey, I’ve got to go to the Olympics now. So that surely will be enough to get that result is big enough to warrant the love that I need. And we see this happening all the time where you feel like you’ve got to achieve everything and be perfect in this life because that’s what it takes to get the love that I’m after rather than, Hey, the effort that you’re putting in is the thing that’s consistent. That’s the thing that changes. That’s the thing that breeds the progress. That’s the thing that you are enough by putting in the effort. So it’s a great story. We could talk about that. I could talk about that for days. I love it. Really cool.

Speaker 1 (20:10):

That’s why I love book timers. On a side note, I think books are more for us as parents than they are for kids, but that’s why bluey episodes and stuff are so important because you can teach your kids so much through stories and books and it’s probably more for us as parents than they are for kids.

Speaker 2 (20:25):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Let’s get, we have to do our kids book review, new episode style, new kids book reviews.

Speaker 1 (20:32):

Mine is Sesame Street Dreams, by the way.

Speaker 2 (20:34):

That’s another one. You love that one. That’s all right. We’ll get to those. Let’s bring it back to our topic. The thing we’re talking about, and we’ve talked about raising confidence or destroying it. What we’re really doing at the crux of all of this is changing or seeking to change or build a healthy relationship with challenge for your kids. That’s really what we’re talking about today. And you mentioned before, Rob, about one magic word that we can use and that word is yet. So do you want to describe what you mean by that and why that word yet is the magic word?

Speaker 1 (21:07):

Yeah, I know this is something that I know in particular, Jacqui and I work really hard on saying this. When we hear our kids this, and especially we’re doing this a lot with Grace at the moment. She’s our oldest and she’ll say, I can’t do this, and we’ll be quick to go in there and go, yet, Grace, you can’t do it yet. And we’re adding that yet on the end of sentences. So whenever you hear one of your kids say, I can’t do this, or I’m not good at this, or I don’t understand it, that’s language that they will be using because they’re probably self-confidence and they are only young or whatever, however old they are, they’re using that language. But as parents, if we can help shape that language by dropping that on the end and just go, Hey, Grace, you’re not good at this yet. Let’s keep trying. Let’s keep working through this. Or Grace, you can’t do this yet. So if we can keep reinforcing that yet at the end, then what it’s doing is teaching them that growth and lessons and learnings are always available and they’ve just got to keep trying and keep pushing ahead.

Speaker 2 (22:13):

Yeah, it comes with effort and time. That’s the secret. That’s the secret recipe. It’s not that you’re some magic person, you’ve got to go and find what you’re good at. It’s literally the growth comes with effort and time. So really, really important. Shall we try and make sense of this and bring it into a challenge for the week?

Speaker 1 (22:30):

Let’s do it.

Speaker 2 (22:31):

All right, here we go. This week’s challenge, let’s talk through catching yourself using ability type language. That’s the first challenge. Can you catch yourself labelling your child maybe even yourself as I’m good at that. I’m not good at that and I’m that sort of person. I’m a natural at this. It’s something that you’re naturally inherent. You’ve got an ability for it. Whenever you start talking in terms of natural ability, that should become your first antenna that, Hey, if I can catch that, maybe I can make a shift. So that’s step one. Step two is when you see struggle, resist that urge to jump in and fix it because our first thing as apparent is we want to minimise. We want to minimise the cuts, the scrapes, the scars and the damage that kids get themselves into when they struggle. But you’ve got to resist that urge to fix it.

(23:22):

And like you just said, combine that with step three, which is adding yet to the vocabulary. I can’t do it. Don’t go and we’ll, let me help you. You can’t do it yet. How else could you do it? It’s that language. How can you shift one sentence and just pick one? Don’t try to do this for everything you do. You’ll go crazy and you’ll never do it. But just pick that one time and see if you can give yourself one sentence or one exchange a day even for the week where you can pull yourself up and say, Hey, I’ve engaged in a different type of language pattern with my kid. That would be huge. And then lastly, whenever you get to those moments, don’t be afraid to share your struggles and how you’ve struggled and learn the power of yet, or how you’ve put in the effort. And over time with the effort and time you’ve been able to grow in your own abilities, it goes a long way to tell those sort of stories as well. So there’s some points for you to work on this week. We’d love to hear if you’ve done those at any of the breakthroughs that happen.

Speaker 1 (24:20):

Yeah, I love it. Now to round out today, the bottom line is is that your words today shape your child’s relationship with challenge, effort, and failure for life. And that’s hard to wrap our heads around, but the words we say and how we say it go a long word in a long way in shaping our kids and their future. That doesn’t mean that that’s going to be them for the rest of their life. They can go on and make change, but we have more of an imprint as parents than we realise. It’s every conversation is an opportunity to build up one of your children who sees setbacks and learnings as an opportunity. And that’s what helps them become a growth-minded individual later in their life. So it’s so important, and every struggle is a chance to teach them that growth happens when things get challenging.

(25:20):

So what you’re doing as a parent is helping them have a healthy relationship with challenge, not something that they want to avoid. And what we want to do as parents is use language that builds them up, not language that subconsciously limits them as they go through life. Because the kids who have the ability to grow through effort, they’re the ones that just keep getting better and better and better at whatever they put their mind to later in life. So don’t underestimate the power of what we say and how we say it, and the impact that it can have on our children and their confidence later in their life.

Speaker 2 (26:03):

And of course, we’re only speaking to your kids too. This could never apply to you. So if you want to take that for what it is and start doing some of this for yourself as well, absolutely, it will have the exact same impact. So we look forward to hearing how it all goes.

Speaker 1 (26:19):

If you want to build a business that gives you more time to be the dad your kids deserve book in a free strategycall@strategysession.com.au because being present for the big moment, start with building a business that doesn’t demand all of your time. What a great episode. Dan. Thanks for tuning in today and looking forward to coming back to you with another episode next week. Take care.

Speaker 2 (26:42):

See you soon.