Episode 89 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Leverage is about putting someone into position so you can delegate your weaknesses so that you can focus on more of your strengths. Hi everyone. Rob Kropp and Dan Stones here from Pravar Group, and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. Good to have you back, Dan. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:20):

Good to be back, Rob. Hi everyone. Yeah, really good. Looking forward to today talking about control freaks. How are you feeling? Talking about control freaks.

Speaker 1 (00:28):

Nervous.

Speaker 2 (00:30):

That’s all right. We will try and keep it honest. We’ll see how we go. All right. This is one of the most common things we hear in coaching, right? No one is as good as me as you sort of said at the top. And you might not say those words, but it’s no different if you’ve said or continually thinking to yourself, it saves me time, it saves me energy, it saves me money if I could just do it myself. And you know what? Maybe in the short term you might even be right, but the thing we’ve learned coaching hundreds of trades businesses is that that’s the exact thinking that keeps you trapped or in the bottleneck. So Rob, let’s talk for a bit about why being a control freak kills your growth, first of all.

Speaker 1 (01:08):

Yeah, I think when you are a control freak, you want to grow. Obviously when people go on that journey to be able to grow, they recognise that one man can only do so much, and I think that they recognise that well, the only way to get leverage is through time by hiring team, by developing systems, or you can leverage other people’s money. And I think what happens is when you start building that team in around you and you do start creating that leverage around you, if you continue to be a control freak, the first thing that happens is that your team stops thinking. And that’s the biggest trap is they stop thinking for themselves. So even though you’ve got team around you, if you’re a control freak, it’s almost like they stop using their brain and you don’t get the real power of having a great team working for the business.

Speaker 2 (02:01):

Yeah, we talk about arms and legs. You’ll get more arms and legs in the business, but you don’t get the leverage, the multiplied effect by people making good decisions by people coming up with ideas, using that brainpower. They’ll show up, but really they’re just showing up in body, not in mind, not with that momentum you’re trying to build. So you really do become that ceiling if you like, in terms of where it is.

Speaker 1 (02:24):

And you’re right, you do start having those team members around you and obviously you employ them to do a job. You employ them for their skillset, their experience that they do bring to the table, but you’ve got to put yourself in their shoes is why would they make decisions if you are just going to override them anyway? Or why would they take initiative if they know that you are just going to fix it and do it for them to some degree. So as a business owner, you’ve got to put yourself in your employee shoes and about how they’re feeling when you control it. And you as the owner might be whinging and bitching that things aren’t getting done and you are missed to fix it and overriding them and micromanaging them. And no wonder they operating that because you are creating that environment where you override them for things that they should be having the autonomy to be able to do themselves.

Speaker 2 (03:21):

And when we talk about people in the organisation and your team, you can always look at that through their lens or what sort of people would hang around if that was something that was going to persist, what is the outcome, the natural outcome of it all? So I think that’s a big one. The next one is you effectively set a ceiling on the business.

Speaker 1 (03:40):

Yeah, the ceiling becomes, because everything comes through you as the business owner, you become the bottleneck. And as your business does get bigger and your team does get bigger as well. If you create this environment or this culture within your business where you make the decisions or call the shots, or you create this relationship, this dependency relationship with your team where they feel like they’ve got to come to you for everything because you’re a bit of a control freak and micromanage certain situations, then the business doesn’t get to the next level because you can’t handle more. You become more tired, more stressed, more worn out, and it’s not necessarily your team’s fault. It’s your fault because as the owner, you’ve created this environment and as a result you get worn out and the business stops growing.

Speaker 2 (04:34):

Yeah, I think it’s a speed issue. Then The thing you’re trying to do is speed up growth. Usually you’re trying to get to that next step. There’s meant to be forward progress, but what happens when you do that and you create the ceiling is everything slows down. Decisions take longer because everyone’s waiting around twiddling their thumbs for you to show up and make the call. They haven’t got any decision making muscle, so you’re stuck there as well. You mentioned the word dependency before, and I know this is a big one for you. The idea of you create dependency, but not capability is huge in any business, but we coach this a lot.

Speaker 1 (05:06):

Yeah. It is that dependency thing when you’re hiring someone, you’re hiring them for their skills and their expertise to be able to get a job done, and that comes with physical labour, but also the brain power to make decisions. But the problem is, is that when you are a control freak and you become the bottleneck in that business, you create this dependency relationship with your team members and they almost become scared of making decisions or don’t feel like they can make a decision until you give them the nod or the approval because you create this relationship. So the owner then whinges and bitches that they don’t have time, their team can’t make decisions and they, oh, I just wish they’d work it out for themselves. But it’s not necessarily their fault. It’s potentially because you of the owner has created this environment where subconsciously they come to you to be able to make those decisions for them.

Speaker 2 (06:05):

And I think as we talk about this, there’s an element where you’re talking about this stage in business where people are building their team and leveraging up. There’s natural control that you’ve held onto it for so long. But I think being clear on what we mean by a control freak, really it’s the failure to recognise the ego check that has to happen because really at the end of the day, it’s not that your team can’t do it, it’s whether or not you can let go. You’ve hired in presumably good people that are capable of doing the job and doing it well. So you’ve got everything in place. The real trick is not so much the people that you’re hiring, but the fact that you can’t do that ego check and say, well, I’m actually going to let this go properly.

Speaker 1 (06:46):

Yeah. Like you said earlier in this episode is that mindset of the longer and harder I work, the more money I’ll make and no one’s as good as me, and it saves me time and energy and money if I do it myself. That’s a common mindset for a business owner. Muscling their way to get their business out of the ground, and you have to have that mindset. But there’s a point in business that that mindset is what got you to here, but it’s not the mindset that is going to get you to the next level. And it is to a degree, we could replace the word mindset with ego. You’ve developed this belief or this ego that no one is as good as you, and it saves you time and energy and money if you do it yourself. That is a bit of ego. But the reality is, if you’re honest with yourself, you probably suck at admin, you probably suck at bookkeeping, you probably suck at some form of estimation and managing jobs because you’ve got to remember, there’s people out there, this is their career, this is what they do as a profession, and if you drop the ego and let the space for people to come in and do their job and give them the autonomy to do it, then you’ll probably prove yourself that you’re probably not as good as you think you are.

Speaker 2 (08:06):

Yeah. Mindset and ego we’re talking about, I think at a deeper level as well, there’s this idea of you’ve done this, this is why it’s so hard. I think intellectually people understand what we’re talking about, but the idea of your identity is being shaped on all of those things. You are the business owner, your business is successful. The reason why you can hire is because at some level you are known for something. Your identity is the fact that you’re the guy that saves the day, right?

Speaker 1 (08:34):

Yeah. It’s almost like you become that Mr. Fixit guy. To be honest, I’m a bit of a self confess control freak, I’ll admit that. And I think for me, that mindset comes because Pravar is my baby. It’s my pride and joy. I, I’ve built this from the ground up and it’s been a lot of blood, a lot of sweat and a lot of tears to be able to get pava to this point. And I think in the early days when business is hard and you’re scrimping to be able to get by, you’ve got to keep a tight reign on things, but it’s hard to let go. A lot of business owners, and I found it personally hard to let go, to be able to let people in to be able to, it’s almost like I was handing over part of my baby, and it’s a hard thing to do, especially when you’re going through really tough times.

(09:25):

But I had to soon realise that Rob could only do so much, and I had to learn to let go and allow other people to come in and demonstrate their expertise and let them do their jobs and hand over the reins and allow them to do it their way. And it’s different to my way, but it’s better. And that was a really hard thing that I really found in my journey in leadership and still find hard to today. And I think that just comes because your business is your baby and you want to see it succeed. And when things aren’t going well, you almost grip tired to be able to make it better.

Speaker 2 (10:03):

Was that an ego check thing for you, do you think?

Speaker 1 (10:09):

It definitely was because especially when I was in the coaching space, it’s like, well, no one could coach like Rob, but my style is different to other people’s styles and there’s other coaches in our business who coach differently to how I coach and get just as good or better results in different areas. And so yeah, it’s definitely an ego check for me to be able to check my ego at the door, to be able to go, you know what? I know I’m good at certain things, but there’s certain things that I don’t suck at, and I’ve got to relinquish that control to be able to enable this business to achieve it’s full potential.

Speaker 2 (10:46):

Yeah, it’s interesting. I look at us working together. We work really closely together every day. So I wouldn’t have said it’s an ego check thing in the coaching space potentially because it is a real skill or craft and all that sort of stuff, and there’s an element of truth to that. But in terms of admin and operational stuff or accounting or whatever accounts or whatever it might be, it never came across as an ego thing. I’m interested to sort of go, where was the holding on that piece? Was it because you had such a strong vision just trying to get, if you’re listening, what else it can be other than just straight up ego that’s holding you back from letting go?

Speaker 1 (11:23):

I think because I’m a real perfectionist and I like things done a certain way, and we see this within their clients is they’re a perfectionist in their craft. They like things done a certain way. You build that business to operate in certain ways because you build systems and processes off the back of you doing things a certain way and running the business that way, and then all of a sudden you start hiring people and it’s almost like, shit, now I’ve got to let go and I’ve actually got to let ’em do what they’re employed to do. And that’s hard because mistakes happen. Things fall through the cracks, they take slower, they’re done differently, and it almost grates on you a little bit. That’s what I found anyway. And that’s where I struggled to let go because I’m so particular in getting certain things done. It took me a long time to truly relinquish control, to let people do what they’re getting paid to do.

Speaker 2 (12:25):

And I think it builds into that next phase. It’s like, well, I’ve got a choice to make here. Either I can hold onto control or I can grow this business. And it becomes a real decision point which way you go. So I think you can’t underestimate the journey that it is not as easy as just hiring people, bringing them in and saying, all right, here’s your role, here’s your PD off. You go and start doing the job. And then just sort of half as managing them. You’ve got to really make that conscious choice and keep checking yourself. This is an ongoing process. It doesn’t just happen once and that’s it. It’s done.

Speaker 1 (12:54):

Correct. And I think what happens is is that you start building out your team and for the guys listening, they’re getting off the tools and they’re handing over responsibility to tradesmen leading hands, and all of a sudden they’re in the office and they’re building out their bookkeeper and their admin and potentially a project manager. And what happens is, is that you build the team, but you get no time. And if you are building a team and got no time, and you are still copying a thousand phone calls a day and feeling like you are running a daycare centre and babysitting everyone, that’s a surefire symptom or a sign that you are not relinquishing control because your team’s getting bigger, but it’s swallowing you in and you’re not feeling the power of leverage by getting time back, even though your team business is getting bigger, that’s when you can really reflect on that to be able to go, if you’re in that situation that it’s probably telling you that you’re not relinquishing control and you’re not empowering your team to do or fulfil the role that they’ve been employed to do in the first place, and you’re not living up to their full potential and you are not getting the true potential out of them because you’re almost robbing them of the opportunity to shine in their role.

Speaker 2 (14:10):

And it is that idea. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to necessarily be lowering your standards. I wouldn’t say for a second. You’ve lowered your standards. It means that you’re raising, you’re more focused on raising the capability of your team.

Speaker 1 (14:22):

Correct.

Speaker 2 (14:24):

And that sounds different. So let’s run through a couple of examples just to keep the practical side of this and how it shows up. The first thing, if we look at it, instead of saying, if you’re letting go, you’ll go from saying the control freaks will be nodding their head, but I need to check every quote before it goes out. I can’t trust anyone to do that. What would be your example then in terms of the opposite side of that or the other side of the coin, instead of that, try something else.

Speaker 1 (14:50):

It’s almost like, here’s the parameters for pricing. Here’s our rates, here’s our margin target, and if anything falls out of those boundaries or those parameters, run it by me and we’ll check it off before it gets sent out the door.

Speaker 2 (15:04):

I love it. So that’s falls, that’s putting the decision back in their hands. That’s the empowerment piece. Who’s making the actual decision? So it’s a really important one. If that’s you, is the person who’s in the role making the decision or am I, yeah. What about, look, get out of the way. I’ll just do it myself. It’s way quicker.

Speaker 1 (15:22):

Yeah, this is an interesting one because we think in isolation that a five minutes here or five minutes there doesn’t sound a lot, but it adds up to a lot over time. So instead of thinking that, it’s like, well, how can I show you this? How can I train you in this so that you can handle it next time? And it’s just a different way of thinking. And yeah, it might take you an hour to train someone, but those 15 minute increments that you do week in, week out, after a little while, you’ve got all that time back forever.

Speaker 2 (15:51):

Yeah, exactly. I love that. So going from doing to training is a big one. What about Rob, I get you. But they just don’t get it. These guys just do not get it no matter what I do.

Speaker 1 (16:04):

It’s looking at the opposite of that going, well, how do I train them or set them up so that they do get it and so that they can succeed? And so if someone just doesn’t get it, it’s well, how do we empower them? How do we train them? How do we develop them? How do we teach them so that they do understand it and can succeed in that task or function going forward?

Speaker 2 (16:26):

Yeah, I like that. And I think coming out of this, hopefully everyone’s picking up on this, but the goal isn’t to be perfect from day one. This is a process. It does take time. So you’re not looking for perfection or a mirror image of you. You’re not creating, as you’ve talked through your experience, you’re not trying to create the next rob, you’re trying to build the business into something else, and you’ve got to start looking for progress.

Speaker 1 (16:49):

Correct. And I think the power of leverage isn’t about delegating your, it’s not about improving your weaknesses. Leverage is about identifying what you’re good at and what you’re not so good at. And leverage is about putting someone in a position so you can delegate your weaknesses so that you can focus on more of your strengths. And that’s the whole idea around relinquishing control and empowering your team is you identify, so for example, your admin function, if you know you’re not great at admin and it is an LVT or a low value task, then let’s go to market and find a really good operational admin or a ca who can come in there and take that function off you. And if you’re honest with yourself, what used to take you half an hour probably takes someone 15 minutes, who’s someone who’s good at that. But in order for them to succeed in that role, you’ve got to hand over, you’ve got to relinquish control. You’ve got to give them the power to actually succeed in that role. And you might identify all these different areas in your business around admin and bookkeeping and potentially project management, whatever it is that you’re not great at. That’s the power of leverage because you get to delegate your weaknesses and bring someone into the business, and that’s where they can shine. But you’ve got to relinquish control and give them the ability to be able to succeed in that role.

Speaker 2 (18:12):

Yeah, absolutely. All right, let’s get control freaks breaking out into a complete sweat and do a challenge for the week. So this week what we want you to do is pick one thing and just one, don’t just hand over your whole business and think, well, that’s that done. I’m off to do something else that won’t work. But just pick one thing, just one that you always do yourself and think about, maybe it’s approving quotes, maybe it’s scheduling, maybe it’s handling difficult customers, maybe it’s just looking at your accounts receiver, whatever it is, but set up some boundaries. Give someone the training and then let them handle it. So when you do this, what we’re really looking for isn’t to complete the task in the sense of, well, it’s off my plate done and dusted. I never have to look at it again. But it’s about having the experience of setting up boundaries, of letting go, of doing the training and letting someone else handle it.

(19:05):

Now remember, when we do this, are they going to do it exactly like you? No, already there’s a beat of sweat for the control freaks. Will they learn? Yeah, absolutely. If they’re given the freedom to learn. And then will your business pick up the capability in the capacity to be able to do it better in the future? Absolutely. So really the idea is to stop trying to be the hero, the bottleneck, creating that ceiling, blow the doors off it, start to do this and start building your team and the people around you so that they’ve got the capability and confidence to do that role and free you up to get on with that thing that you were talking about, Rob, about doing what you do well and where you really truly belong in the next version or the next layer of your business.

Speaker 1 (19:49):

What a great challenge. And for those control freaks, it’s going to test you, it’s going to test your resolve, but you got to remember that every day you continue to strangle is another day that this business will stagnate.

Speaker 2 (20:03):

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (20:05):

The big thing to remember out of all of this is is that people and systems do set you free, but only if you let them. The more you strangle your business, the more it absolutely stagnates. Like I said before, the more you empower your team, the more it grows. This isn’t easy, but letting go never is. You’ll watch them do things wrong. You’ll bite your tongue, you’ll see mistakes happen that you could have prevented. You’ll question whether this is worth it. But every mistake they make while they’re under your guidance is a lesson they won’t need for you for next time. It’s a difference between being a manager who does everything and a leader who enables everything. And in business, you’ve got to make a decision. Who do you want to be and where do you want to get your business to go? And if you keep holding on tight, you are going to continue to strangle this business.

(20:55):

But if you bring the right people into the right positions, empower them, relinquish control, and give them the autonomy to succeed, the world is your oyster and you’ve got the ability to achieve some amazing things and you’re going to have a happier team for it. So never forget that every time you hold on tight, you’re strangling your team and your business from achieving its full potential. You’ve enjoyed today’s episode and for all your control freaks out there, make sure you take on the challenge that Dan set you. But if you are ready to stop being your business’s greatest bottleneck and start building a team that can run without you, then jump across to strategysession.com.au and book in a discovery call. And I look forward to talking to you soon. Thanks for checking in today. Hopefully enjoyed it again and looking forward to talking to you again on our next episode. Take care.

Speaker 2 (21:41):

See you soon.