Episode 95 Podcast Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):

I feel as though I’m in a position where I can do sort of nearly whatever I want. It’s just a matter of putting your mind to it and doing the work. I feel as I’m in a pretty good spot to be able to do what I want.

Speaker 2 (00:18):

Hey everyone, Rob Kropp and Dan Stones here from Pravar Group and welcome back to another episode of The Trade Den. How are you Dan? Good to have you back.

Speaker 3 (00:27):

Very good, thanks Rob. Great to be back, actually powering through towards the end of the year, but good to be back and getting ready for another client feature.

Speaker 2 (00:35):

I know these are my favourite episodes and yeah, really looking forward to getting stuck in with Jared Redman, so big warm, welcome to you. Jerry, how are you today?

Speaker 1 (00:43):

Yeah, I’m going good. Thank you guys. How are you guys?

Speaker 3 (00:46):

We’re going very well, thank you mate. Excellent. Good to have you on board. We’re going to get into this. It’s going to be interesting. You are an original trade dead listener, so it, it’s good to have someone go all the way through to now being on the podcast, so welcome aboard.

Speaker 1 (01:00):

Yeah, I know. I was actually thinking about it and I was like one year ago even probably 14 months ago, I just started listening to it and all of a sudden, 14 months later, 15 months later, here I am on that same podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:16):

Yeah, it’s wild, isn’t it? And don’t give it away because we’ve got a hell of a story to tell. It’s been a huge 14 months, so we’ll get into all of that. I think where we could start off though, as I said, welcome to you, but let’s get into just getting to know you a little bit where you’re from, bit about your background, anything you’d like to share from those young formative years.

Speaker 1 (01:37):

Obviously your name’s Jerry Redman. I come from Arrarat Victoria. I run a plastering business that specialises in high-end residential and a little bit of high-end commercial in the last sort of six months. Got a team of eight including myself and admin and an admin overflow, I guess you could say. Part-time estimator, getting to the stage where things are starting to get busy. I got two daughters one, three and a half and one and a half. So as you can imagine, things are very, very busy.

Speaker 3 (02:15):

Yeah, absolutely plenty to fill in your time, especially with the two girls, they don’t get any easier either. Just quietly as Rob and I can attest to. Tell me a little bit about background in plastering. Is it a family sort of thing? I think your dad was a plaster. Am I right in thinking that?

Speaker 1 (02:36):

Yeah, yep. No, he was, yep, done my apprenticeship when I was 15.

Speaker 3 (02:40):

And did you did that with your dad?

Speaker 1 (02:42):

Yeah, the old boy. Yep.

Speaker 3 (02:44):

What was he like? What was he like as a boss?

Speaker 1 (02:47):

Yeah, good. I can imagine it was pretty easy to not have an argument, but obviously he was always right. Just one of those little kids think I know everything. But yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:59):

It was always pretty good. That’s good. Alright. Was the plan always to end up in plastering then? Did you fall into the apprenticeship? How did you come about going into the apprenticeship with your dad?

Speaker 1 (03:09):

Just sick of school. The typical story, 15, 16, just I don’t know. I used to work all the holidays with him and got to the stage where I was just sort of far as though I was wasting time. So yeah, I jumped on with dad and done the apprenticeship pretty early and got finished really early. So then jumped into after a few years fully qualified, then jumped into a bit of commercial and jumped around a little bit just to different companies and learned a lot of different stuff. So yeah, it’s something that I think that was a bit of a pivotal point, making sure that I got in all different areas.

Speaker 3 (03:53):

Nice. And how long have you been in your own business for then? You said you jumped around, how long have you been running RMP for now?

Speaker 1 (04:02):

Probably nine years I reckon. So 2014, 2015, somewhere around there. Yeah, slowly. Just gradually got person a year pretty much. But it’s a typical story though. Get to the stage where it just doesn’t serve you what you’re being a good plaster or just it gets to a point and that’s where it stops. And I didn’t realise that until.

Speaker 3 (04:27):

It sneaks up on you, doesn’t it? So let’s go back, say 18 months, 14 months, however you want to class this journey. Let’s get into it. You were originally a listener to The Trade Den podcast. Were you on from the first episode or where did you start kick in?

Speaker 1 (04:44):

I think it was about August. I can remember. It was a time where it was just like, I remember saying it to Rob in the strategy call. It was, the timing of it was just incredibly good because I was at a stage where I was just in November the year before I had a chance to have an extra two people jump on and I only wanted one, but I just didn’t want to miss the opportunity. So I had the two and I just got to the stage where started the year I started getting into cashflow problems and it was just like I felt a little bit out of my league now. I was just like, I didn’t know what was happening. I should be making more money dealing with employees. And it was sort of just looking back at it now, I just hit something that where I just didn’t know where to sort of go and I thought, you know what?

(05:36):

I’m going to start revising me pricing, start pricing into some different areas like commercial. And then a mate gave me a link. He’s like, Hey, you should try have a listen to this. I talked to him a fair bit. He goes, have a listen to this. I know you’re not into that sort of side of things as far as, I didn’t even know what a coach was if he’s like, I reckon if you have a listen to this and it might give you a few insights. And I listened to it and I was just like, I was on the tready and I reckon that I was hiking and I hike for an hour and 56 minutes. I can remember vividly, it was an hour and 56 minutes I was hiking. I burnt like 1700 calories or something and it was one of the episodes was, I think it was the first one was 50K to your bottom line I think. And everyone was just, I was just like, wow, I didn’t even know there was such thing as a business coach.

Speaker 3 (06:35):

Yeah, awesome. That’s so cool. It would’ve been hard yards. You’re doing a hike, you’re on the treadmill and you’re listening to us in the early days. That’s a tough session, Rob.

Speaker 2 (06:43):

It was. We’ve come a long way in the podcast, but it’s so good when we hear stories like that. And I remember where our first Gauge areas are, you just churn through episodes and you’re in, you loved it. You’d listened to so many episodes and we’ll get into it today, but you’d already made a heap of changes just based on the episodes that you’d listened to and it’s so good to have you here today mate, because yeah, you’re an early listener and you’re an early adopter to be able to go, yep, I’m got to make some change. And then you’ve jumped into coaching and it’s been a wild old ride in the last 12 months, but it’s been epic and that’s why we’re so proud to have you here mate, because you’ve executed like an absolute champion and you’ve achieved some amazing things in the last, definitely over the last 12 months. So it’s, yeah, looking forward to unpacking your story today.

Speaker 1 (07:28):

No, thank you. It’s definitely been a wild ride. But yeah, it was well and truly due and the timing was just perfect.

Speaker 3 (07:37):

So Jerry, let’s just hang around this time so we don’t get this chance because a lot of the people we bring on to do client features are years into their coaching journey, can sort of vaguely remember it, but I’m hoping you’re probably a little bit clearer. What was it like that moment you went from not knowing what coaching was, listening to a few podcasts, to jumping on the discovery call, what was that moment that you sort of said, yeah, bugger, I’m going to go and have this discovery call that these guys keep rabbiting on about and what was your sort of mindset at that time?

Speaker 1 (08:03):

The mindset was like I was actually relieved. There was actually something out there that wasn’t even in my control. I remember just thinking, okay, this is not as though I think it was a little bit of belief but a bit of a belief as well. I was just, when I first heard it, I was just like, okay, there is something out. There’s or someone out there that is actually in this thing and does a lot of it and knows exactly what they’re talking about because everyone that they’ve spoke about has been, it resonated so much. So I think it was a little bit relieved to be honest.

Speaker 3 (08:45):

Nice. So were you coming from it at that point? We have people that come to us because they’re absolutely trapped and life absolutely sucks. We have people that come to us because they’re confused. We have people that come because they’re confused and trapped. It sounds like you were in that confused space looking for clarity in terms of what that next step looks like to go where you knew you wanted to go.

Speaker 1 (09:05):

Yeah, a hundred percent. I knew where I wanted to go, but I just didn’t know how to get there and I’m not afraid to say that because knowing what I know now, I had no hope. I knew I had to make some serious changes to how I operate, how the business operates and just as a whole. So for me it was at the time I don’t think wonder if I can afford it. And then Rob is probably going to laugh when he hears this, but he goes, it was great sales, but he actually said, I went through someone’s p and l and I bet you I could cut off what it’d costs to actually have the coach. And I was just like, I actually went through it. I was just like this, yeah, this is perfect. I actually can. So that’s when I made the call, I was like, you what? I’ve got nothing to lose here. I’m not afraid to say that. Yeah, definitely need help and I’m glad I did because it’s not just a coach, it’s not just business, it’s lifestyle as well. But I think that I needed to change me personally to make the business change.

Speaker 3 (10:13):

You talked about that, I think looking back on the next call, discovery to strategy, call the notes and things like that. You said it provided some huge perspective shifts to you just even on that early jump into the calls with Rob, those first couple of calls, what were some of those shifts? Can you remember what the perspective was that shifted? Obviously you didn’t change overnight, but what were the perspectives that did shift for you?

Speaker 1 (10:35):

I think for so long I thought that the harder I worked, same old story, the harder I worked, the more hours I worked, the better things we’ll get. But it wasn’t that case. I know that what’s going to set me free is systems and having the business not so reliant on me, I was just a classic hamster wheel. The business was run on me, not the other way around. So that was the perspective of thinking that I’ve got to work so much and work big hours and all that. It was just the perspective was I’ve been working in all of the wrong areas, the work ethic is still there. It’s just I’ve got to work on different things. Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (11:21):

And then in terms of coming into the coaching then, so you do that, you sign up, you’re into launch the launch programme with us. How do you feel that first sort of few weeks when you sort of found yourself in there, now you’ve got a group of guys, not just Rob’s voice, not just the podcast, but now you’ve got a group of guys around you that are doing this thing together. What did you find in those sort of first few, let’s call it the first couple of months?

Speaker 1 (11:44):

I think how good the culture was there with the community. I think I could feel like I could call up any one of those guys at any time and they would actually help me. I think that was a pretty good thing. That was the thing I was really surprised with. That’s one of the main things I think is really good is I guess the community and how much you actually learn up other people in the same area.

Speaker 3 (12:10):

So did you reach out to a few guys early days? Were you one of those guys that was straight on the phone or were you standing back a little bit and sort of finding your feet?

Speaker 1 (12:19):

Yeah, I was a little bit standing back and I’m a listener, not a talker. I’m happy to sit back and listen and learn. I’m one to be trying to tell people this or that. I’m just a listener.

Speaker 3 (12:36):

Really. I would’ve said, you’re a bit of a talker. You like to ask questions. I’ve been on enough Q&As and stuff with you where you pipe up when you need to.

Speaker 1 (12:44):

Yeah, only when I need to. I feel I’m useful. I didn’t like luck. I have something useful to say.

Speaker 3 (12:51):

So Jerry, eight weeks into coaching, you hit your first last quarter review that we do in Pravar. It’s just part of the rhythm that we have. So you’re not in long, but you then wrote around, you did a really good one. I mean some guys take a few to get into it. You sort of had this big realisation even in eight weeks around what needed to change, what your biggest win was and what you’d noticed about yourself in that first eight weeks. Can you remember what that was?

Speaker 1 (13:13):

Yeah, I remember thinking from being a tradesman to managing a trades business, and once I got that mindset shifted of I am managing these guys and this business, it’s sort of like the path ahead started to getting a lot more clearer. And before that it was like how am I going to run all these guys and be on the tools and do all this? But then I come to realise that I’ve got to manage this trades business, not be in it. So yeah, that was a massive mindset shift for me. Huge.

Speaker 2 (13:51):

How much was that moment of clarity big for you? What did that unlock for you in that moment of clarity when you had that realisation, what did that do for you?

Speaker 1 (14:00):

I think accepting it. I guess I haven’t fully accepted. I guess that there’d be certain elements to me that will be, it’ll be always there, but I think just accepting it put me ego aside and just knowing now that this is you. You got to manage these guys and that’s, that’s the reason why you’re probably in certain positions. That is because they haven’t had good management and good leadership. So that’s a hard pill to swallow, but it’s what it is.

Speaker 2 (14:35):

Because even at this point here, you were still on the tools a fair bit. You were still on the tools during the day?

Speaker 1 (14:41):

Yeah, I was, yeah. Yep. And I just started merging off and that was when the crack started to appear and that’s just a management thing. I didn’t have position descriptions. There was a lot of stuff that I was missing. And when I started hearing the things that proper businesses actually have, then I realised that, yeah, no, I definitely need help with this.

Speaker 2 (15:07):

This is a natural point that a lot of trades businesses get to it and it’s roughly around that million-ish dollar market. We’ll talk through your numbers a little bit later, but the moment that you start hiring a couple of people around you, as you said, you had the opportunity to grab two more people. Cashflow was starting to get tight, things were getting busier, multiple jobs starting to run at any one time. This is naturally when the cracks do start to appear. And as Jerry did say, is that it was a huge moment of acceptance where it’s like, you know what? I am in this position because I’m trying to run a business like a tradesman. But in order for a trades business to get to the next level, there’s got to be a point in time where you go, you know what? This business to achieve his full potential being a great tradesman, it’s not good enough anymore. I’ve got to go from being a great tradesman to a manager of a trades business. And Jerry, you had that acceptance early on in your coaching journey, that moment of clarity. And for some guys it takes them a lot longer because they don’t want to accept it. They still have their identity wrapped around being a tradesman. But for you is that’s what the turning point for you was, wasn’t it, where you turned a huge corner and boom, business took off for you then, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (16:25):

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. It doesn’t mean for a while there it was hard because you want to jump in there and you want to fix this and you want to not fix things, but you want to jump in there instead of allowing them to empower them to be able to do the things that you were doing. That there is so much more rewarding than me actually doing it. Watching your employees and you empowering them and them getting to the level that you are at, that is way more, way more than me being able to do it myself. And I started to fall in love with that.

Speaker 3 (17:08):

Were you patient at that time, do you reckon or were you impatient for all of this to change? Where did you fall on the patient scale?

Speaker 1 (17:18):

Midway? Let’s say midway.

Speaker 3 (17:21):

Midway. You had your moments.

Speaker 1 (17:23):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No happy moments.

Speaker 3 (17:27):

Everyone does. But I think you’re right. That mindset shifted. I’ve got to manage this business. It’s a world of difference saying I’ve got to do everything to managing everyone. I think that’s where that conflict you are talking about. Rob comes in, you get to that point, well hang on, if I go to manage everyone, I’m not even good at that. There’s going to be less things happening and more up in the air than less. But it’s the only way to move forward. You need to get that time, that space and that leverage to go off and do the strategies that we’re about to jump into that Jerry had to then go off and do.

Speaker 2 (17:56):

Yeah, correct. The conflict is more an internal conflict that you have. It’s because you are in no man’s land where you just over that you hit that million dollar mark in a trades business, if you talk to anyone out in the marketplace, you say, I’m running a million dollar business, and it sounds impressive from the outside, but internally, you’re actually in the middle of no man’s land. You’re too big to be small, you’re too small to be big. You’re kind of halfway a tradesman trying to halfway be a manager, halfway an admin person. That’s that conflict that you feel. It’s more of an internal conflict than anything kind of getting dragged back into being on the tools, but you’re trying to step up and play a bigger game. So the conflict is the internal conflict and the chaos comes from the disorganisation within the business because there is no structure, there’s limited leadership, there’s limited management, and there’s limited systems.

(18:54):

And so the conflict is internal and the chaos is because there’s no structure or systems and that’s where a decision point comes for a trades business. You’ve either got to make the decision to be able to go, well, am I going to stay here in this semi-sweet spot and run a tool belt business, or do I take the step to fully get off the tools, bring in admin and start running an owner operator business? And that was the choice you made, Jerry, where it’s like there’s a bigger game out there and I know I want to play that bigger game and off I went. But it’s not easy, but it comes with a whole heap of strategies you’ve got to execute on.

Speaker 1 (19:30):

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it’s definitely not easy. Definitely not easy.

Speaker 3 (19:35):

So let’s look at some of those strategies. Let’s fast forward to that sort of about 12 months ago you started to really hit your stride, you’ve gone through the mindset and you’ve accepted the challenge. The next step in this coaching journey as you’ve gone on to execute is really starting to stack a few wins against the strategies that were required. And one of those conflicts that happens is how do I afford all this? And a big part of that is going well at the moment, I know I can’t. But then the strategy is not to say, well, I’ll do more work. You’re going to manage the business better. So you start to jump in and around that July to September quarter, you start to work on your pricing. This is a big one. This is a huge strategy and a lever that you pull to go off and work on pricing. Now you approach that as a manager versus a duo who’s saying, well just the more hours I walk, the more I get paid. Different world. So talk us through your experience of then pulling this lever on pricing and what you learned and how you went about changing that.

Speaker 1 (20:28):

Yeah, it was like I said, I put in Arrow flow, which was enormous change for me. And I guess what I found was my pricing, I needed to adjust because moving into a different market, starting to price on commercial jobs, we actually targeted a new builder and so that there was one of the game play as well. So for a while there I think I was under pricing and I think having arrow flow and the ability to have hours and margins and markup and just having all that there was just, I guess it was an enormous game changer as far as for our next year’s work because realistically that was what I was targeting. It was next year’s work and just getting enough systems in place to be able to handle that.

Speaker 3 (21:29):

Well handle it and handle it profitably, right? Through coaching, you’ve got to understand your cost base, you’ve got to do the build up of the prices and then put it into the system. So this is now you operating as a business owner and a manager as opposed to just like we said before, just going off and just doing the work with you guys and rocking up on site.

Speaker 1 (21:49):

And just being able to put time to jobs and areas and that there has just been a huge, huge game changer knowing what areas of the business is doing well in certain areas of those jobs. So I think that was important too.

Speaker 2 (22:05):

It’s a super important point that Jerry’s making here is, and if you haven’t listened to it, go back to episodes 23, 24 and 25 that we did around pricing because they were some of the episodes that Jerry listened to early on before he got into coaching. It’d already started making the change, but the reason why this pricing lever was such an important one for Jerry is because you’ve got to remember that the pricing strategy that got you into business is not the pricing strategy of where you want to go. And especially when you’re in that transition period of when you are on the tools versus phasing yourself off the tools. Because when you’re on the tools, you are on the job, you are driving productivity, you price the job for you to manage it, you to run it, you are billable yourself, but the moment you start phasing yourself off, you’ve got to price it for your team to do it.

(22:54):

You get more understanding around the true cost of your labour. You get to understand around allowing enough labour costs and breaking it down like what Jerry was talking around. And so this was a huge strategic play that Jerry did. He pulled together ground plan, which is the estimation software, Arrow flow, which is the job management system and the pricing strategy behind the scenes. He was very ambitious and actually worked on three at the same time, but this was such a big lever that Jerry pulled in the first instance and it was a game changer. And Jerry, you’re right because the work you started pricing back at the end of 2024 was the work you were completing into 2025. So you had to get that right for where you were going in business, weren’t you? If you priced that wrong, what do you think would’ve happened as you tried to grow?

Speaker 1 (23:42):

I would’ve been in the same position. Same position, yeah, just a rat race, not understanding what’s going on, not allowing enough hours. As I merged off the tools, like you said, I did start to notice that because I’m not on site, things start to change, but it’s not about me being there to be able to drive them. It’s about holding ’em accountable for a job that you’ve given them and you are paying ’em to do. So that’s where I think I’ve struggled in the past is that accountability side of things. And that’s just I guess just management 1 0 1, isn’t it? Especially when you’re starting to get off the tools.

Speaker 2 (24:22):

Correct. And can you see that by breaking those jobs down and allowing for the hours, it actually gave you something to hold these guys accountable too, didn’t it?

Speaker 1 (24:30):

Yeah, it did. And yeah, it sort of feels good to be able to, and not only everyone wants to win as well like that, no one wants to not perform. So I think showing ’em what success looks like as well was pretty important.

Speaker 3 (24:47):

It was a big one. That was the second thing that you actually did on that first review you had was how you showed up for the team. You actually did take a very different tack. I think you talked about having toolbox meetings for the first time where you weren’t sort of filling ’em full of shit and just sort of rocking up going, let’s have this chat. That was your declaration to the group in the review was this idea of how you were now showing up as a manager as opposed to just sort of thinking, I’ll have a crack at a toolbox talk and see how we go.

Speaker 1 (25:16):

Yeah, I mean I always know what I need to say there. Not in a bad way. Half the reasons why something might happen would be because of my management, and that was the reality of it. I was literally doing my apprenticeship again. So yeah, it’s good. But there’s been in that position again of being an apprentice, being that underdog, it’s good, but you got to put your ego aside. That’s what I’ve found.

Speaker 3 (25:46):

And you did that and that’s a huge step. I don’t want to gloss over that because being able to what we call embrace the suck and the fact is it’s going to be tough and you’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to say things and it’ll sound weird and it’ll be like, what’s everyone doing? But your ability to actually put yourself out there and say, well no, I’m going to work on toolbox talks, I’m going to actually work on the way I communicate to the team, I’m going to give them some of the clarity that I now have is a big step forward. And I think that unlocked again, this capacity in your team, which allowed you to get more into what became the next phase, which was the business development side and accelerating this transition in the work you’re doing.

Speaker 1 (26:22):

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (26:24):

Really good. So let’s talk through then, let’s go through what the result was of these first sort of levers you pull, you go through all this sort of stuff. We hit a quarter then that was September, November 24. Let’s talk through what you did. You ended up doing a 320K quarter, which puts you on track for, let’s call it a 1.3. It’s about 1.28 mil as an annualised run rate. How big a jump was that for you to actually hit those numbers at the three 20K quarter from where you came on for coaching? And again, we’re still not even 12 months through this journey.

Speaker 1 (26:56):

I think it’s a belief thing. It’s one of those things like that doing that was just sort of like, wow, I actually can do it. And I think when I did hit that, I sort of thought, well, what’s next? And then obviously the next target. And I guess after I hit that first one I was like, we can do this again. A hundred percent. So I think that belief, that was the biggest thing for me, I reckon moving forward.

Speaker 2 (27:27):

Was that the first time you’d set a target in the business?

Speaker 1 (27:30):

Yeah, I ran a shonky setup, Rob, I’m a plaster. I honestly, I’ve spent so long of keeping everyone else happy, keeping clients happy, keeping the actual product. So I wanted not perfect, and that was my whole career, whatever you call it is just making sure that that end result is what they want. And at the cost of myself, family and I guess cash to a certain degree. So I think finally hitting that number side of things was it was pretty special. And that was only the start of it.

Speaker 2 (28:20):

And that was a big area that you started moving into is really starting to pull apart your numbers and getting a greater understanding. What clarity did that give you the more you started digging into your numbers? Did you feel overwhelmed or did you feel excited by really starting to get a grasp on them?

Speaker 1 (28:37):

I felt, yeah, excited. I actually nearly to the point I was a little bit nerdy, like point apart me profiting loss and out into Excel and then making it into percentages and then actually starting to see why am I spending this much money on this? We haven’t even used that. And then understanding where I’ve got to cut costs and do I actually need these things. So that’s one thing I did find. It was exciting and I did enjoy it, but at the same time, again, I did see things that just didn’t make sense of why I actually had ’em.

Speaker 3 (29:17):

Excellent. And you leaned into that though. You sought out the answers, you didn’t shy away from it, try and protect the fact of, Hey, I don’t want anyone to see that. I don’t know this stuff. You actually turned up to your Q&A calls and you showed up and asked questions and you lived in there until you got it, as opposed to, well, I’ve sort of got to hide the fact that, I dunno. And that’s another big feather in your cap in terms of the attitude you took towards it through that time.

Speaker 1 (29:41):

Yeah, well I actually watched all the, that’s the first one I jumped to was the previous year of the knowing, I think it was price to profit or knowing your numbers unlocking the vault. That’s what it was. So I actually went back and then I was like, how good is this? I actually, I can actually go back and look at the old launch the year before. So I actually started going back into all that and I actually watched the whole of 2023 or 2024, sorry, of launch before. So realistically I actually had two years. So realistic. Yeah, so that was good. That was a part I loved being able to have that access.

Speaker 3 (30:20):

Yeah, really good. And what I want to do now is go from that three 20K, that belief you started to have, let’s go 12 months forward now, that 320, that was off the charts in terms of where was it going to go to, you couldn’t have seen it coming. You said you didn’t know what was next, but what was next was if we fast forward to September, November 25, now that we’ve just completed, we look at it now, it’s about five 50K for the quarter, so it’s a huge jump. So from 1.3 mil annualised to 2.2. So this is now a completely different beast that you are now managing and running.

Speaker 1 (30:55):

I can,

Speaker 3 (30:56):

Yeah. And tell us in terms of your words, what does it feel like to sort of suppose look back on that 12 month gap and go, geez, I went to three 20, now I’m up to five 50. The challenges and what it feels like when it actually happens to you?

Speaker 1 (31:09):

Yeah, it’s a different challenge. It’s the same challenge, but it’s just a different area. I’m not so much so involved in the operational side of things as much. I’m sort of more or less a lot more delegation and a lot more trying to create our outcomes instead of me doing all the time. Now it’s just me managing the doing and it’s still hard, but it’s so much progress. If I look back, that’s the first time really, I’ve actually had a good look back a couple of days ago and just actually pull things apart and seeing how far we’ve come and see how far the boys have come and obviously got admin now and part-time estimator and yeah, it’s full on. But unreal.

Speaker 3 (32:06):

And Rob, I think we love these stories, the work that Jerry’s done and the ability to generate those sort of outcomes is huge. But again, I think the important thing here is to stress that it was structured, it was planned, it was executed in stages. It wasn’t just, Hey, let’s go help for leather and grow this top line through the roof and see what we get to.

Speaker 2 (32:25):

Yeah correct. When I’m sitting down on a strategy call with a prospective client, what I’m doing is looking for their next real milestone in business, whether that’s 12 months, 18 months or 24 months down the line. And I’m trying to move them out of an ugly zone or a dead spot into a sweet spot. And for Jerry, he was stuck smack bang in the middle of the one to 5 million hamster wheel. And we were looking at manoeuvring to a two-ish million dollar owner operator business. And what we did is we pulled apart where he was at, where he was trying to go. And what dropped out of that was a series of strategies overlaid, which was really our launch programme, which delivers that. And it looked at everything from job management systems to pricing to ground crew to admin, to knowing your numbers to bookkeeping. There’s a series of strategies that helps you step off the hamster wheel and step into an owner operator business.

(33:22):

And we did that for Jerry and we pulled together a roadmap. We mapped out his year on a page and I said to Jerry, I said, mate, this is probably going to take you 18, maybe 18 or more months. But true to Jerry’s form, he has absolutely executed like a champion and he’s done it in 12 ish months. But it is strategic, Dan, you’re right, there’s a formula to it. There’s a recipe here. It’s one or two strategies at a time over time, just try and work on everything at once. And Jerry, that’s a testament to you mate, where you’ve followed the process and you’ve followed the plan down to the T avenue. You’ve obviously had to adjust along the way, but you’ve really stuck to that initial plan and it’s really paid dividends for you, hasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (34:12):

Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I think timing was everything. There’s a right time for it all. And I mean through the calls you start to understand when that time is through what you’re getting taught. So I feel like obviously with the admin, the timing of that was perfect. Vehicle resources, the timing of that was perfect. The pricing, the part-time estimating, it just, there definitely is a formula a hundred percent. There’s no way known. I would’ve, looking back it now, I wouldn’t have no hope.

Speaker 3 (34:52):

No hope. And that shows up in the way you approached it. I mean going back through it, you look at it and you say, well, the first thing you sort of started to work on in that next sort of phase was ground crew and sales focused. You brought on or you reappointed or rehired it leading hand. You had to get that sorted, which meant that was more overhead because leading hands aren’t always chargeable the whole time. So that meant we had to have a sales focus that brought on this new version of like, we’re going to go out and find, we’re going to get a new resi builder. I’m going to really focus on my bd. You couldn’t have done that if you didn’t have admin in place by then. So again, you probably knew intuitively what you needed or you could see it in your vision of how things run.

(35:29):

But like you said, it’s making the right decision at the right time, that becomes the real skill of being a good manager. I think everyone can say what a hand on nut, what a good business should look like. I should have a couple more guys. I should have a couple more staff to help me out. Okay, go for it and see how that turns out. If you don’t get the timing right, it can be a disaster. So I think for you, ground crew sales focused allowed you to build the affordability and it was just another repeat of that belief growing, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (35:54):

Yeah. Yep, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (35:57):

How did patients play out in this, Jerry? Because obviously when you first started getting your roadmap laid out to you, it was just all these strategies and empty boxes and it’s like, well, look what’s in front of me. How did patients play out in the temptation not to work on a million things at once play out in your world?

Speaker 1 (36:16):

Yeah, I’m not really impatient, especially if I can see if I smell it. I am not really patient, but I think the first quarter of the first half I come to realise that this stuff takes time and it’s a dials, not switches, nothing happens overnight. So yeah, after the first half I think I started to realise this is going to take time. Stop being impatient. You could be here a couple of years and that’s it. Just be patient and follow the process.

Speaker 2 (36:52):

I think you see this enough in the community where guys try and fast track it and chase shiny lights and chasing shiny lights through this process. It doesn’t work, does it?

Speaker 1 (37:02):

No, no. I was a little bit like that at the start, but then I think you guys drive home enough the shiny light syndrome, which is a real thing, a hundred percent. And I think there’s times where I could have dived into areas that I shouldn’t have, and there’s times that I probably did do it but didn’t realise that until I actually finished the quarter and thought, you know what, that wasn’t really a priority. And just learn from it though.

Speaker 3 (37:31):

Yeah, excellent. And that comes things like the other things you did right? One was the big separation from home, getting your shed tidied up, all that sort of stuff was in here as well. So that was another one where most guys love that, right? New shed I’m in and all of a sudden they’re going out purchasing that before they’ve got their team in place or they’ve done their sales and even before they’ve known their numbers, they’re already doing that. It sounds like it’s cool, it’s something they like to do, but you managed to do that too. The separation from home was a huge one for you over the 12 months as well.

Speaker 1 (38:00):

Yep. That’s disclaimer. It’s a bit of a mess now at the moment, but coming into Christmas you can’t argue with that, so it’s not a priority.

Speaker 3 (38:10):

You can spend your holidays tidying it up.

Speaker 1 (38:14):

I won’t be doing that. I can tell you I’ll be planning it and then the boys will be doing it. Nice. Even better. See management, management 1 0 1 again.

Speaker 2 (38:21):

Good delegation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:22):

Well, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (38:24):

Just like you’ve been taught, the other one was financial acumen. I want you to throw this story in here. I might get Rob even if he can remember. Can you remember when we started talking about this whole financial acumen, which you’ve developed, had done a really good job, but there was a moment that you were spurred on to really taking the message to heart around knowing your numbers. Can you remember what that was?

Speaker 1 (38:45):

Yeah, I can remember Brit and I was watching the, I think it was 2024 launch and it might be was knowing your numbers and we were sitting on the couch and I was just watching it on a Saturday night and I can remember it sort of went quiet and Rob was like, thankfully I knew that I wanted to do something, be a businessman in a younger age. And I had a guy that taught me a bit and he said, numbers are the language of business and if you can’t speak the language then you’re fucked.

Speaker 3 (39:26):

That was the biggest lesson you got in numbers straight away.

Speaker 1 (39:30):

That was And that’s true though. It is so true. As much as it was funny the way he said it, it’s true. If you don’t understand, if you don’t get intimate with your numbers, then you’re playing a game that you’re not going to win.

Speaker 3 (39:45):

Well put, Rob, that was one of your best quotes. That’s what we got out of the year. That’s the quote of the year when we do our highlights episode.

Speaker 2 (39:51):

I know, I didn’t even realise I said it, but obviously you say things on group calls to make impact statements and it definitely left a mark on you, didn’t it, Jerry?

Speaker 1 (40:00):

Oh, I did. I still remember that. Yeah, it’s funny. It’s gold.

Speaker 2 (40:04):

I’m glad I created some comedy for you and Brett on a Saturday night and created a moment of laughter.

Speaker 1 (40:10):

And you had this nice button up shirt as well and it actually looked good coming from you.

Speaker 3 (40:19):

I love it. All right, let’s turn our corner now just to a bit of personal stuff again, 12 months, huge. I hope as you listen to this, you get a sense of the huge achievement, but the huge amount of work and the strategy behind it that went into this. So we’ve covered that off. Let’s talk through personal growth and development. So how do you see yourself now versus 12 months ago as a person? What’s changed in how you show up at home, how you carry yourself or the habits you’ve now adopted? Give us a bit of how you think you’ve changed personally, not just the business, how it’s shifted, but you.

Speaker 1 (40:51):

Eating in the mornings, like training in the mornings. I think if I start the day good, then the day seems to run on good. Definitely eating habits at nighttime. I’m reading a lot more books. Even like say travelling in the car, I’m making sure that I’m listening to audio books. I can’t believe that I’m actually a year later I’m actually listening to business audio books. So it wasn’t me years ago, a year ago, but now understanding the importance of it and the importance of good habits and eating and starting the day good and showing up the way I should show up to the boys and girls. So yeah, I think there was a saying though that heard a while ago, and I’ll never ever forget it. The business would never outgrow you as a leader, and that to me would hit home hard because I guess at the end of the day, it’s so true. It’s never going to outgrow me. And yeah, for me it just hit hard, real hard.

Speaker 3 (42:05):

It’s good. It’s a big one. The consistency of your habits is what underpins most of this. It gives you your energy, it gives you that sense of I’m centred and centred. It’s a funny word, but it’s that idea that I’m not doing something thinking I should be doing something else. I don’t feel like I’ve given up everything of myself to run this business or to do coaching. So I think Rob, that consistency factor of your habits and looking after yourself with self-care, it can’t be underestimated the role that’s played with Jerry, even though he’s sort of talking it down the reading’s one thing, but there’s so much more that he did over that 12 month period.

Speaker 2 (42:37):

Correct. Jerry’s really embraced it within the launch group. They call him Mr. Consistent, and it just the way that he shows up to coaching, shows up to the coaching calls, shows up to his Q&A shows up in his round tables that we have every quarter, the little launch mini communities, and just adding the photos in there around putting what you’re eating for the day and putting your boots out ready to get go training in the morning. You’ve changed a lot, mate, in terms of you personally and the way you’ve shown up at home and as a leader and within yourself, even just little things around your food and your nutrition and your training and everything, all these things is what has built you into the man and the businessmen and the leader and the family man that you are today. You are chalk and cheese. I don’t think you realise it, but you are chalk and cheese and who you are today compared to where you were 12 months ago.

Speaker 1 (43:34):

Yeah, no, I think it’s sort of hard for me to talk myself up, but yeah, no, a hundred percent I’m different person. My mindset shifted I guess my personal development, my emotional intelligence, and that has a snowball effect down the line. So how Brit is now and it’s just, I think it just creates a better environment all round I think for me. And that’s the ideal, right? To be able to do that. It’s unreal.

Speaker 3 (44:11):

That’s what you got into it for in the first place. So it’s huge. So Jerry, as we wrap this up, I think the one question I’m going to ask you I’m genuinely interested in this is what are you excited about over the next 12 months? This ride you’ve been on has been amazing, you probably couldn’t have scripted it, you’re getting better at thinking about what you want and where you want to go. What have you got in your mind over the next 12 months?

Speaker 1 (44:33):

I think the business identity, who we are, I’m starting to understand who we are, I guess why we exist as well and the jobs that we want to do and the type of people that I want to employ, the type of leader that I want to be, the type of manager I want to be. For me, yeah, I feel as though I’m in a position where I can do sort of need whatever I want, it’s just a matter of putting in mind to it and doing the work I feel as I’m in a pretty good spot to be able to do what I want.

Speaker 3 (45:13):

Excellent. So good to hear that.

Speaker 2 (45:16):

You’ve got a foundation behind you now. You’ve got a foundation of good resi builders you do work for, you’ve got a good foundation of moving into the commercial space. You’ve got a good foundation of good solid ground grew. You’ve got a good foundation of your pricing and your job management system and a foundation of knowing your numbers and a foundation of some estimation support, like your foundation’s rock solid now for you, it’s strategic growth now, isn’t it? And that’s what you’re talking around. It’s around who are we, why do we exist and where do we want to go? And you’re in that really exciting phase of business, obviously it’s got its challenges, but you’re entering into that really exciting phase of growth with a good foundation behind you.

Speaker 1 (45:55):

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, don’t me wrong, there’s areas where I know I need to improve, need to approve. There’s going to be those areas. But I guess the confidence now and understanding the cost of things and understanding how to delegate and understanding how to talk to people and be a good leader and manager. I’m just, I’m excited for the growth ahead and for seeing what the boys can produce because the last six months has just been, it’s been awesome to be able to see them deliver the work that we’re all proud of to be honest.

Speaker 2 (46:35):

And you’re already doing it. You just completed one of your most complex jobs just recently and I bet that was bloody proud of you to be able to stand back. And I know different jobs have different challenges, but it must’ve been a real proud moment to be able to stand back and go, you know what? I priced that all those months ago and yes, we won that job and look at the complexity and look what we were able to deliver. It would’ve been a real proud moment for you, wasn’t it?

Speaker 1 (46:58):

Yeah, and we’re still in it now, but yeah, a hundred percent. There’s been some big complexity of that job. And to be honest, I was at the stage where I couldn’t do it myself. As much as it’s a good thing that that happened is I can’t get in there and do it myself because there’s too many things happening. I have to watch the boys do it and I soon learned that at the start of it that my leadership is going to really be tested here. So that’s one thing that I’ve really found out of it. That’s probably the biggest thing out of the whole job, is to be able to watch them and empower them to be able to deliver this job, not me.

Speaker 3 (47:39):

That’s so cool. Jerry, last thing, we talked about this when we were setting up for the podcast and you were big on the fact that you wanted to hopefully have people listen to this and decide to take steps like you did at the beginning. What would you say to someone who’s listening to this and maybe that’s their first podcast that they’re listening to of the trade dent? What would you say to them if they’re on the fence about getting into coaching or anything to do with getting on the pathway you have?

Speaker 1 (48:07):

I would say probably put your ego aside and don’t care about what people think, because probably coaching was probably the biggest game changer I’ve done in my business, I think. And what it’s taken me is I couldn’t have got here alone. So I think that’s a big thing for me at this time. Maybe I handled it pretty well, but I think you just dunno what you dunno and if you sit and dwell on it, I think, yeah, that’s a disastrous.

Speaker 3 (48:46):

Awesome. I think Robert’s been amazing. It’s been an amazing 12, 18 months with Jerry. We look forward to what’s coming in the years to come on the journey, but for now I think it’s probably a good spot to end it. And we might check in with Jerry as we continue through the next programmes with Pravar.

Speaker 2 (49:04):

Definitely I don’t think Jerry realised how well he’s actually executed to be able to go from the run rate he was doing 12 months ago to the run rate he’s doing today. It’s a huge jump in 12 months, but it hasn’t been throw mud at a wall and hope something sticks. It’s been strategic, well-executed growth over a 12 month period. And what Jerry’s been able to do in a 12 month period generally takes someone 18 to 24 months. And because we’re big believers of slower sustainable growth, so there’s a marathon, not a sprint, but what Jerry’s been able to do is very strategic growth over a period of time. And I love looking at his roadmap that we have in launch where when he first started in coaching, it was just empty. It was like we were doing this monthly run rate and this many days on the tools to all green boxes of ticks to the new run rate.

(49:55):

He’s doing completely off the tools and all the strategic plays that we mapped out in the first strategy session have all gone from not even started to now completely complete. And he’s running the true definition of an owner operator business in that suite two-ish million dollar mark admin, some estimation support, job management system pricing, knowing your numbers fully dialled in ground crew, the definition of what Jerry’s got right now as a pure owner operator business, and he’s got a decision to make and we already know what his decision is. His decision is do I stay here and enjoy the fruits of my labour or is there a bigger game that I have to play? And we know Jerry’s opening the door to that, that he’s got to now enter the nightmare zone to be able to get into a bigger business. But it’s a real journey in front of Jerry, which I can’t wait to see him embark on that. But definitely Dan, I think we check in with Jerry in 12 or 18 or 24 months time and see how he’s gone navigating that zone because mate, you are destined for great things and I don’t think you realise how much you’ve grown as an individual and I don’t think you’ve realised how well you execute in a strategic matter. And we are really proud of you, mate. You’ve done an exceptional job in the last 12 months.

Speaker 1 (51:13):

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I definitely hasn’t been easy, but yeah, a hundred percent strategy was everything and yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (51:23):

If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, the starting point for you to make change is to get that discovery call booked in. It’s an opportunity for you to fill out the details. If you qualify, you book in a time that suits you and suits I, we talk a little bit about where you’re at and where you’re trying to go. And then from there the next steps is we map your 12 months just like we did with Jerry and what drops out of that is your next milestone. We lay the path, we get set and it’s a decision point. If you don’t choose coaching, that’s fine, but if you choose to jump on the path, then let’s get cracking and let’s get stuck into some coaching. But if this has really resonated with you and you are really truly committed and ready to make change, then jump across to strategysession.com.au, fill out the form and let’s get the conversation started. Thanks for joining in today. Thank you very much, Jerry. We really appreciate you joining us today. No doubt you’ve imparted a lot of of wisdom onto our listeners, but thanks for joining us today and Dan, let’s round it out there and look forward to coming back to you next week. Until then, take care.

Speaker 3 (52:26):

See you soon.